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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Wednesday, October 26, 2005

Living in fantasy land

Conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan, October 25:

"I have to say that as someone who trusted the administration not to consciously lie or mislead about their evidence for Saddam's WMDs, I'd be pretty pissed if it turned out they did. We have no solid evidence for that, though. Yet."

Sullivan's unholy belief in the truthfulness of the American government is telling and naive in the extreme, but few conservative writers have been as transparent as Sullivan in documenting the Bush administration's sanction of torture, rendition and growing Republication hatred of homosexuals. Check his blog for a man constantly challenging his own views and realising the cronyism and corruption at the heart of the world's only superpower.

With the announcement today that 2000 American soldiers have died in Iraq - with many more injured and maimed and tens of thousands of Iraqis murdered - the US has asked journalists to not view the milestone as, er, a milestone.

U.S. Army Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, director of the "Coalition's" combined press centre, has sent an email to reporters (note to readers: this is not satire masquerading as the US army):

"
I ask that when you report on the events, take a moment to think about the effects on the families and those serving in Iraq. The 2,000 service members killed in Iraq supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom is not a milestone. It is an artificial mark on the wall set by individuals or groups with specific agendas and ulterior motives.

"
Celebrate the daily milestones, the accomplishments they have secured and look to the future of a free and democratic Iraq and to the day that all of our troops return home to the heroes welcome they deserve."

Boylan's deluded propaganda should be seen for the folly that it is. No doubt, some pro-war news organisations will respect his request.

So where to from here?
The International Institute for Strategic Studies has released a report that says American troops will likely remain for years to come, with little reduction of the 140,000 currently stationed there. The Iraqi army is, quite simply, incapable of independence.

The American people - and to a lesser extent the British and Australian populations - will not tolerate an extended and indefinite military commitment.

Now is the time to increase pressure on docile politicians thinking of withdrawal.

Australia's proposed anti-terror laws may make opposition to illegal military operations a punishable offence, so let it be said once again: the Iraq quagmire has made us a greater terrorist target and has created the perfect breeding ground for Islamists with a grievance against the West and its arrogance. The defeat of America and its allies in Iraq is vital to ensure similiar acts are not carried out again.

54 Comments:

Blogger Pete's Blog said...

Amen to your "seditious" words AL.

And we'll visit you in gaol.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:27:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Please bring chicken soup, bottled water and dark chocolate.
Oh, and the Bible.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:34:00 pm  
Blogger Shabadoo said...

So you'd rather see a Taliban/al-Qaida style hell in Iraq than a functioning democracy, just to make a point to the Americans?

What was that again about arrogant Westerners?

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:43:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Functioning democracy?
Yes, we're well on the way there, I forgot...

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:43:00 pm  
Blogger Shabadoo said...

High turnout at the constitutional election last week, results certified by the UN. Are things perfect? Far from. Heading in the right direction? Slowly but surely.

Appreciate for a moment what a tail-between-legs departure would mean for ordinary Iraqis. It's not all about you and your petty dislike for American democracy.

Enjoy yourself at the 2,000 Dead celebrations.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:47:00 pm  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Shab, no one here is celebrating anything. Why do you feel the need to make such dishonest (and stoopid) accusations?

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:29:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

Shabadoo

The survey conducted by the UK's Ministry of Defence shows that most Iraqis believe the CoW are a big part of the problem and want it gone from their soil. Are you denying the Iraqis their democratic right to "determine who comes to their country and the circumstances in which they come"?

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:37:00 pm  
Blogger Mike Hunt said...

The East Timor intervention was successful, so won't that encourage more such interventions?

Wouldn't it have been better if we had lost in East Timor? Maybe Osama wouldn't be so mad at us.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:47:00 pm  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

The defeat of America and its allies in Iraq is vital to ensure similiar acts are not carried out again.

You are actively calling for the defeat of Australian soldiers stationed in Iraq. So tell me, how can they be defeated without being killed? If they didn't have to worry about daily attacks, they can concentrate solely on nation building. If they did that, it would make your claimed quagmire a null point. So, for them to be defeated, it requires a continuation of the deadly insurgent attacks against US and allied soldiers.

Are you actively calling for the deaths of Australian soldiers stationed in Iraq?

Your last sentence here is the most vile, and treacherous, statement made by you yet. You have called for the deaths of Australian citizens to make a political point.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:38:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Shab and Willbourne,

How is it that hawks are balmig the 2000 dead on the peacenicks? I mean, if we'd had our way, those 2000 peple would still be alive.

You love to accuse those the disagree with you for not taking reponsbility, yet you blame the failures of the policy;s you support on the same people.

The January election and this recent one are doing nothng to prevent things getting worse. There was a Reuters report the other day saying that Chalabi is meeting with leaders in Washington who are eyeing him for a possible Iraqi leadership:

"The longtime Iraqi exile began attracting U.S. attention as a potential prime minister after Washington decided Iraq's current premier, Ibrahim Jaafari, had discredited himself by seeking overly friendly relations with Iran, Time said, quoting unnamed administration officials."

Wow, and all this time, I thought that it was up to the Iraqis to determine who will be their prime minister.

How fitting woudl that be? The man who helped lie us into this war is rewarded withthe prize he wanted all along.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:23:00 pm  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

I at no point mentioned the 2000 dead, or attributed blame for them on anyone. I am neither a hawk, dove or any other nonsense tag.

Loewenstein has called for the deaths of Australian soldiers in Iraq.

No matter what you believe, an honest person will find this repugnant. No other issue is important to me here, except that he has called for the defeat of the ADF at the hands of terrorists killing as many innocent Iraqi's as possible. No matter what way you spin it, Loewenstein wants Australia to lose. Either by the deaths of our soldiers, or the continued slaughter of innocent Iraqis.

The only point at which the Australian people will uniformly call on our Government to pullout the troops is from substantial losses on our side. This then, based on his own statement, is what Loewenstein wants, coffins draped in the Australian flag.

If I am wrong, and he simply worded it very, very incorrectly, then he should acknowledge this here and change the post to anything but a call for the defeat of our soldiers.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:37:00 pm  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

Antski,
Once again, take my friendly word of advice and scrap your comments section. Otherwise,as a journalist you will be continually brushed with the blush. And we wouldnt want that now, would we?

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:33:00 pm  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Wilbourne, the defeat of the Western war-mongers, if and when it comes, will take a political form. Hoping for victory over Washington or Canberra does not equate with a desire for bloodshed. (And nor is an Aussie's blood more sacrosanct than any other individual's.)

You deliberately misrepresent Loewenstein and anyone who opposes imperialist militarism.

Before you dare to condemn others again, you should question the motives of those you defend and seriously analyse the outcomes - present and future - of the policies you so proudly support.

Slander will get you nowhere here, Wilbourne. Misconstrue as much as you wish. Your applauding audience is elsewhere. Not here.

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:43:00 pm  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

DBO, your Robin to his Batman is really a very tiring routine. I did not address you, nor is it your responsibility to answer for him on a matter clearly more important then your point scoring. To claim that you hope for the defeat of Australia, as Loewenstein has done, while at the same time not wishing for the death and injury of those fighting in Australia's name is the very height of duplicity. You can not have it both ways.

Now please allow Loewenstein to answer for himself.

The defeat of America and its allies in Iraq is vital to ensure similiar acts are not carried out again.

Loewenstein, how can you justify a call for the defeat our soldiers at the hands of bloodthirsty terrorists who have shown the Iraqi people no quarter in their daily attacks against the civilian population. Please justify this statement as anything else but a desire to see our soldiers die, so as to garner the required public outrage, and facilitate the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq. I don't care about the rights and wrongs of the Iraq War, or anything else that has been used by your supporters to detract from this one point. Why have you called for the deaths of Australian citizens?

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:58:00 pm  
Blogger Steve said...

Hey Dirtbag

Ant used the words "defeat ...... in Iraq". Not "withdraw ..... from Iraq". Geddit?
That doesn't sound like a "political form" to me.

Don't forget the Vaseline, Ant.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:12:00 am  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Wilbourne, don't patronise me, nor attempt (childishly) to sidestep my point.

When the war comes to an end it will not be because Western troops have suffered too many human losses. We have already seen that the powers driving this war don't give a rat's arse about the deaths of soldiers (or anyone else), whatever "side" they happen to be on.

The political and moral pressures upon the war's proponents will be their undoing.

That said, Loewenstein's view are his own. I state only my own, and assail yours from that vantage. (On a blog, as in any public forum, I don't think you need to address anyone directly to get their opinion. Do you think Ant's post was addressing you?)

Having read his views for some time now (what, six months, a year?) I am reasonably confident in saying that, no, Loewenstein does not wish for the deaths of Aussie soldiers. He doesn't wish for the deaths of anyone.

You have your agenda, and likely find all of this amusing. That's fine. But suggesting that Loewenstein is calling for the deaths of anyone is outrageous. Should I suggest that you, through support for the war against terrorism, are advocating the deaths of Afghani school kids? Or condoning - celebrating - the bombing of people's homes and wedding receptions and soccer grounds?

Take a breath and think about this. Your enemies are not on this blog, nor lurking under the bed. Try to take this as seriously as you make out you do and apply yourself critically, not just ideologically. Please.

Steve, no one even scratched your thin skin. Why the name-calling? That will have you banned elsewhere.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:26:00 am  
Blogger David said...

The American people - and to a lesser extent the British and Australian populations - will not tolerate an extended and indefinite military commitment.

Um - that's not correct. I submit to you the following examples where America supported the sort of sustained overt military commitment you describe

- Germany
- Korea
- The Phillipines

In each case, the US had very specific reasons for stationing troops in these countries and supported this commitment with manpower and considerable economic resources.

At some point you'll have to get over your fervent desire to see Bush fail and come to grips with what's really happening in Iraq and the Middle East as a whole. If you're pinning your hopes on terrorists to do your dirty work then you truly are lost.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:29:00 am  
Blogger Pete's Blog said...

David your examples are flawed.

Democracy doesn't break out at the point of a gun?

Germany - WW2 completely pulverised the country, millions of Russians and other allies occupied it. In total it reverted to democracy 44 years later in 1989.

Korea - pulverised 3 times (by N Korean American and Chinese armies) - does Iraq have to go through this? Still heavily supported by the US military, still in "state of war" with N Korea.

Philippines - occupied by US in 1898 at end of 19th century. US put down a Filipino nationalist insurgency. "The actual death toll will never be known, but estimates of the number of civilians that perished from famine, disease, and other war-related causes range from 200,000 to 600,000." Shades of Iraq? http://www.zpub.com/cpp/saw.html

US unable to stop Japanese invasion. US military control of Philippines until late 40's, long Marcos dictatorship etc.
Periodic communist and Muslim insurgecies as well as widespread police/army lawlessness constantly puts Filipinos in fear.

So what were you trying to claim David?

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:35:00 am  
Blogger Andjam said...

The defeat of America and its allies in Iraq is vital

If Antony is a peace activist, then I declare to the world that I am a warmonger.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:38:00 am  
Blogger David said...

Gigolo -

I'm responding to the post that America would not (and will not) support extended military commitments. That assertion is incorrect. I provided some pretty clear examples of where we've done that.

In each case, our military presence provided security for the country I referenced. I do think that our efforts were somewhat self-defeating, since the countries in question relied too much on our willingness to provide security and support and did not (or would not) develop their own military capabilities to where they could handle things themselves.

I do not see that happening in Iraq, because we have focused our efforts on rebuilding Iraq's military and police to be able to provide their own security. They already are doing the bulk of the heavy lifting with the US and its allies providing support instead of the other way around.

I'm guessing your "point", if you were trying to make one, is that no democracy grows from the point of a gun.

I would counter that nothing worth having ever came for free.

What boggles me is Loewenstein's wish for America and its allies, including Iraq itself, to be defeated in Iraq.

What would you prefer instead, Antony , et al?

Would you prefer the Yugoslavian solution, where we watch as the Shia, Sunnis, and Kurds to cut each other to pieces while fly planes and drive around with blue helmets and no ammunition?

Would you prefer that Saddam Hussein be released and be reinstalled as the ruler of Iraq? You know, forgive and forget? I’ll bet the Kurds wouldn’t forgive OR forget.

Would you prefer that Iraq be turned into an Islamic theocracy like Iran? Mmmm…yummy Sharia law where women have no rights.

I know it’s a shock, but millions – MILLIONS - of Iraqis voted for what they wanted - they elected their own government and ratified their own constitution. They have a freedom now that did not exist for decades - in this case, their freedom was restricted - - at the point of a gun. Thousands were murdered in Ba’athist Iraq under Saddam's rule - - and here you are shitting on the existence of a free Iraq.

But don't worry - we get it. You and others like you HATE what the US stands for as much as you HATE American power and ability to do good in the world. Defeat in Iraq would be a fine comeuppance to American arrogance - how dare we presume we know better than anyone else and how DARE we throw our weight around in anyone else's business.

It must gall you to see what's happening there as much as history will credit Chimpy McHitlerburton and his band of merry neo-conservative Rethuglicans who, gosh darn it, stood the course, did what was right, and didn't abandon our friends OR forget our enemies when the chips were down.

Cheers - DC

Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:54:00 am  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

The defeat of America and its allies in Iraq is vital to ensure similiar acts are not carried out again.

There is only one interpretation here DBO.

1. The defeat of of America and it's allies.
2. In Iraq.

Yes, DBO, he has called for their defeat IN IRAQ. Not through the political machinations that we both agree are taking place in the US and Australia's domestic political scene, as you are trying to portray.

He has called for their DEFEAT IN IRAQ. Perhaps he has worded it very badly, but as a claimed journalist, I must take him on his word and not on good intentions. The only way Australia can be defeated IN IRAQ is at the hands of our enemies. No insurgency, no quagmire. And so he is calling for the victory of the insurgency and the deaths of our troops.

Thank you for your refreshing opinion DBO, but now let's Loewenstein inject something here. To be honest, I don't actually believe he wants harm on our troops, and that he is just a clumsy buffon when it comes to wording his conclusions. He should make that known to us though, because it only reads one way.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:20:00 am  
Blogger Gibbo said...

DBO, Ant is hoping for many more deaths of your so called "Warmongering westerners" to force a political withdrawal.

Talk about gutless pieces of shit.
It's time to have the courage of your convictions Ant and DBO. Sign up now as human shields in Iraq or shut the f@#k up.

I used to like this site better when it was just funny. Funny and stupid isn't as entertaining.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 9:31:00 am  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

Gibbo, Ok then, by your logic I suggest you immediately attend your local army recruitment centre and sign up - either that or shut the F%^%K up.

(no offence meant, just making a point. I would never knowinly insult another drummer:)

Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:42:00 am  
Blogger murph said...

Now that you've made your position clear: I hope your side is also defeated, and in the process you die a slow and horrible death.

- Murph

Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:05:00 am  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Murph, ever walked up to someone in a pub and wished them a horrible death? You idiot.

Ah, yes. Gibbo and Murph: part of the choir (echo chamber?) and proudly serving in the 101st fighting keyboardists.

Thanks for your contribution, boys and girls. I now understand your position completely. Now take your abuse, predictable rhetoric, and bad language, and return to whence you came. No one is amused nor impressed, with the possible exception of yourselves. Of course.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:27:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Our lying politicians will be pleased, DBO. Don't forget them. Somebody has to cover their lies. And they aren't even getting paid (well, some are...)

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:31:00 pm  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

Loewenstein, why do you have a comments section at all if you are going to ignore questions you're uncomfortable with?

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:45:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

My position is clear, re-read my post. If it's not clear...read it again.
I don't wish death upon our darling "Coalition" troops, fighting terrorism and defeating evil.
I wish for withdrawal of all foreign troops from Iraq. It's simple logic. Had Iraq been a 'success', Iran/Syria/North Korea and who knows where else could have been next. Just imagine the joy of the Iranians loving American-style cronyism and 'democracy' from a great height.
Anybody who supports the troops out of Iraq makes similar statements.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:52:00 pm  
Blogger 32325235345dfgdgfdg said...

I respectfully disagree. You are the first Australian blogger who has called for the defeat of Australia in Iraq. You have not called for failure, you have called for defeat.

We can fail, and I would even agree that we have been failing, without the aid of the insurgents. But by definition, we can only be defeated by the enemy. This is what you have called for.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:56:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

David Heidelberg said...
"Gibbo, Ok then, by your logic I suggest you immediately attend your local army recruitment centre and sign up - either that or shut the F%^%K up."

Already did that in 1981 Mushtaq and was proud to contribute in a VERY small way. Under the right circumstances I would do it again but I think they don't take old fat buggers like me.

So, I've done my bit, now it's your turn to have the courage of your convictions and support your side in body as well as keyboard. If that is beyond you then I repeat, you are indeed gutless.

DBO will have to ask Mummy first but as long he's home when the street lights come on it should be cool.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:28:00 pm  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Gibbo, what's the gag about my age?

Another constructive contribution, too. Thanks for your efforts.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:35:00 pm  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

Gibbo, I have the courage of my convictions. I'm an activist, and within the confines of Australian law, protest, write letters, and engage with as many people as possible. (and play the drums)

Too often I hear people cheer-leading a cause that involves other people dying. That in my opinion is obscene and cowardly.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:46:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

DBO, when one conducts ones self in a childish manner one is liable to be labelled such.

In laymans terms: you sound like a second year uni student with no experience or knowledge outside what the green left weekly and a few commo lecturers have told you. That's all.

Have you signed up as a human shield yet or do you leave the hard stuff to others?

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:51:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Fighting for 'democracy' is a tough business, comrades. Killing tens of thousands of Iraqis in the process is an unfortunate distraction, so where can I sign up?
I'm ready!

Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:58:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

See that's the thing Ant. You live in a democracy that has been fought for by people other than yourself so now you don't have to. In that circumstance it's real easy to take the piss out of those who fight for such concepts. Easy and pissweak.

You are typical of "the Balmain socialist" set. When you don't have to live under a socialist regime it's easy to proclaim yourself as one without ever having to go through all that nasty stuff that people who live in them undergo.

You're embarrased by our country, our culture, our politics, our concepts of freedom and those who fought and died for that freedom, and yet you feel no hypocrisy in taking the benefits of living here under our horrible system.

Like all elitists you simply don't have the courage of your convictions. I'm sure Nth Korea or Cuba would love to have you. You could publish your little rants in peace and quiet I'm sure.
The fact is you are a gutless elitist with no courage whatsoever.

What do you believe in Ant? What would you be willing to fight for? What would you be willing to die for? What would you be willing to kill for? Probably nothing I guess. That would involve doing something other than tapping away at a keyboard and playing pretend politics smug in the security that others provide for you. You are a very small man Ant.

As they say, those who stand for nothing will fall for anything. What do you stand for Ant?

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:26:00 pm  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

Jesus Gibbo, Pull your head out of your arse!

Other's died to give us our freedom. We are hit over the head with that all the time. But do you actually know what that means, Gibbo? It means that Ant, myself, even you have the right to express opinions without fear of persecution. That right is being systematically eroded, and you're unable to even see it.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:44:00 pm  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Why exactly should I care about what you think of me, Gibbo? For the record, you couldn't be further from the truth. That doesn't matter though, does it? That's why you make such an ideal mouthpiece for the real elites - no, not Ant, but the powerful individuals and institutions you are so intent on preserving.

In layman's terms, you sound like a loud-mouthed bigot with an over-inflated ego and a chip on your shoulder. And a whole of fear tucked up inside. Your remarks about pretend politics and tapping away at keyboards are truer than you realise.

You've nothing to contribute except bile, so I don't intend to waste any more time on you and your idiot remarks. Thanks for showing me what you're made of, though. Reply at length again if it makes you feel better. As bitter as you are, you need something to brighten your day: I hope that childish blogger comments aimed at people you don't know and will never meet is sufficient to cheer you up.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:50:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

Yes Mushtaq, I know exactly what it means. And I also know that whenever times arise when the fight for freedom needs to be had, that some group of peanuts on the sideline will bitch about it while sitting comfortably and doing nothing.

Anyway Mushy, my questions weren't addressed to you. I want to know what Ant stands for. Beside sitting on the sidelines spewing smart arsed comments he would never have the guts to say in person that is. Ant has no problem bagging those who fight for their beliefs so I want to know what he believes in. A fair question I reckon.

There are three types of people in the world. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen and those who don't know what the fuck happened. Which one are you Ant? What would you fight for?

My guess is nothing.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:55:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Gibbo,
Is that short for Gibson? No wait, it's actually Downer of Baghdad!
Anyway, what do i stand for? Jeez, get a grip. I've written extensively about my beliefs, on this blog, on articles, in books and soon in my own two books.
Keep fighting the good fight. Freedom will thank you.
Truth will not.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:59:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

david wrote:

But don't worry - we get it. You and others like you HATE what the US stands for

I plead 'Guilty as charged, your Honor" to hating what America has become under the current administration.

An America that concocts blatant lies to justify illegal attacks on sovereign states. An America that disavows the same international laws it constantly insists others obey so it can torture, maim and kill with impunity. An America that has so little regard for non American lives that it doesn't even bother keeping count of it's murders. An America who believes it alone knows what is good for humanity and the opinions of the other 95% matter not one jot.

as much as you HATE American power and ability to do good in the world.

Its not the doing of "good in the world" that is the problem. Is the doing "bad"!

Defeat in Iraq would be a fine comeuppance to American arrogance - how dare we presume we know better than anyone else and how DARE we throw our weight around in anyone else's business.

Exactly!

It might also stop you from repeating the crimes.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:36:00 pm  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

OK Gibbo, I hear your point.

I just hope you apply this logic consistently. For example, encouraging war cheerleaders to take arms and get their butts over to Iraq.

I suggest that you immediately go to tim blair's site and make the suggestion. I'm sure that you'll be warmly received:)

Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:14:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

Suddenly all those who, presumably, cheer wildly whenever the Canberra war crims send another contingent of the ADF to Iraq have become extraordinarily concerned about the health of our troops. Though, apparently, not enough to phone their nearest coalition pollie demanding said troops be withdrawn immediately, if not sooner.

Interesting

Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:30:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

Thanks Antony for your typically cowardly reply. Is making fun of my name really the best you can do? People in glass houses mate...

I certainly would not purchase one of your books to find out what you stand for as that would probably double the sale of that particular tome. I expected a savvy chap and a trained journalist like yourself could explain it to me in a sentence or two but obviously writing an original thought is beyond your journalistic capabilities.

I was quite pissed off when I wrote my previous comments and I apologise to the soft cocks I offended, but since then I've had the opportunity to ride my eco-bike home, play my drums for a bit and skull two longnecks of VB so I've calmed down considerably.

You see Ant... these days I'm, as hard as this is to believe, a pacifist. So the day when I would have dragged a piece of crap like you outside by the hair and punched six different colours of shit out of you have well and truly passed.

Today I have decided to do the honourable thing and take you at your word.
You say you only want to see the Aussie soldiers "defeated" not killed. Fair enough. I have therefore decided to pass this link on to some active servicemen I know who aren't too far from you with the suggestion that you deserve, in my humble opinion, to be "defeated". I'm going to leave it up to them what they think "defeated" means.

Have a nice day.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:55:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

Gibbo said...

I have therefore decided to pass this link on to some active servicemen I know who aren't too far from you with the suggestion that you deserve, in my humble opinion, to be "defeated". I'm going to leave it up to them what they think "defeated" means.

You must be one of bin Laden's "jealous of our freedom" nutters infuriated by our right to free speech.

Or are you a follower of the war crims who believe violence is the answer to everything?

Its so hard to tell them apart these days.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:56:00 pm  
Blogger Gibbo said...

No Ian, just someone willing to hold people up to their own words, that is all.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:03:00 pm  
Blogger dusty_buster said...

Has anyone got Ant's address so I can visit him and punch him in the head?
You're a traitor to all of the Jewish people that've sacrificed their lives so that you may spout off your BULLSHIT.
I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing this defeatist 'it's all our fault that the muslimes hate us' bullshit from pencil=necked cockheads like LOWensteen.
Ant? if you were an animal you'd be takeden out the back of the barn and put out of your misery.
p.s Me name' Sean, ASSWIPE.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:30:00 pm  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

Gibbo shorter - free speech is only available to those who hold the same opinion as me.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:35:00 pm  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

You do your cause a great service by carrying on like that Sean. Well done.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:07:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Don't you jus love it when the "support the troops" peanits gallery get's into full swing? Tim Blair posted a note with regard to the 2000th US soldier to be killed and suggested that the peacenicks could now celebrate.

What convoluted bile! His position is abotu sending troopes into harms way, but when the troops get killed, it's the anti war mvement's fault.

As for out servicemen and women, they are not cyborgs. They can pass the buck and say they are diung their duty, rather than admit they are doing tehir job and doing so out of choice. Being a soldier doesn't mean you have to stop thinking for yourself or making choices.

If you want to support our spinless, suck-up, self serving prime minister, who them that's your choice. Howard is giving unconditinal support to an ever grater coward, so that he can accumilate brownie points for himsef. No doubt, he, like Blair, can look forward to a cushy retirement way above the means they would otherwise be entitled to.

Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:39:00 pm  
Blogger CB said...

"As for out servicemen and women, they are not cyborgs. They can pass the buck and say they are diung their duty, rather than admit they are doing tehir job and doing so out of choice. Being a soldier doesn't mean you have to stop thinking for yourself or making choices."

You would know this because? Why is it I never get to meet you brave defenders of free speech on ANZAC Day? I'm looking forward to the raising of the 82nd Chickenhawk Battalion, ineptly commanded by Journalist Cadet Second Class Loewenstein.

Friday, October 28, 2005 12:09:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

When you are a hawk, and backed into a rhetorical corners, you can always hark back to WWII to strike back right? You expect us to get all misty eyed and alute the flag at the drop of a hat? Sorry to dissapoint.

If that doesn't work, you can always get your big brother in the army to come and teach us a lesson right? People like you would argue that military action is the most appropriate option to combat cancer.

Try as you might toi make the connection, the war in Iraq has nothing do with the values or freedoms our servicemen and women fought for in WWII. No one woudl argue against defending against an act of agression. Iraq was an agression on our part and has been proven to be so time and time again.

Build a bridge...

Friday, October 28, 2005 2:20:00 am  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

CB, where would you like to meet?

Friday, October 28, 2005 3:26:00 am  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

DBO,
I really apologise about Sean's tirade and feel that he has indeed embarrassed our cause - after all he forgot to add "bloody moonbat"

Friday, October 28, 2005 12:05:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

Gibbo said...

No Ian, just someone willing to hold people up to their own words, that is all.

Inciting assault is a crime. Want to be held accountable for your words?

Saturday, October 29, 2005 8:02:00 pm  

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