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Thursday, October 20, 2005

Who runs the country?

Amira Hass, Haaretz, October 20:

"The IDF's Central Command has decided to cancel the military escort for Palestinian children on their way to school in the south of Hebron, Haaretz has learned.

"The military escort, which was introduced about a year ago, protected the children from repeated attacks by Israeli settlers near the Maon and Havat Maon settlements.

"The escort was cancelled yesterday following the murder Sunday of three young settlers from the region at the Gush Katif intersection, because settlers began to gather in groups on the roads and the IDF is reluctant to clash with them.

"Palestinian and diplomatic sources told Haaretz that they feared revenge acts in the area following the murder."

Hebron personifies the immorality of the occupation. Hundreds of Messianic Jews living amongst thousands of Palestinians. Arabs are treated like third-class citizens. And Jews openly advocate ethnic cleansing.

Israel is serious about peace.

19 Comments:

Blogger Comical_Ali said...

"Hundreds of Messianic Jews living amongst thousands of Palestinians. Arabs are treated like third-class citizens. And Jews openly advocate ethnic cleansing."

And so why are there thousands of palestinians if Jews openly advocate ethnic cleansing? must be one hell of an ethnic cleansing.

This however is another definition of ethnic cleansing : as oppossed to an uniterrupted growing population of thousands of Arabs - from 1929-1967, not one Jewish soul was left in Hebron after the '29 pogrom. In this pogrom the entire Hebron Jewish community was either massacred by their Arab neighbours or thrown out of their homes (i.e managed to escape from being massacred).
This was a Jewish community centuries old and the Arabs responsible for the massacer were mostly new arrivals - syrian workers (another word would be "settlers" a term which you commonly use for Jews living in that area). Today these murderous Arab settlers and their descendents live in the homes of their dead Jewish victims -- which are mostly situated in and around the old market place of the city.

Like I said -- gotta love your definition of "ethnic cleansing" especially when it concerns Jews.


And another great line:

"Arabs are treated like third-class citizens."

Arabs in Hebron dont pay for any services - electricity, water, gas, education (primary, secondary, terteriay). They get all these supplied free of charge, courtesy of the evil Israeli tax payer. Jews living in Hebron, however pay for all of these things.

If thats what you call "third class," than I opt for the "third class" citizen status.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:52:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Comical_Ali said...
"And so why are there thousands of palestinians if Jews openly advocate ethnic cleansing? must be one hell of an ethnic cleansing."

There is a pretty obvious difference between ADVOCATING ethnic cleansing and PERFORMING ethnic cleansing. The settlers are only advocating it, not performing it.

"not one Jewish soul was left in Hebron after the '29 pogrom."

You're invoking 1929 to "justify" crimes against humanity? Dear g~d! As if somehow evil is good if it is itself a response to evil. (It is as if Martin Buber never existed!)


"If thats what you call "third class," than I opt for the "third class" citizen status."

Err, yeah, right. And the population of Tel Aviv is cueing up for miles to swap identity cards and homes with Palestinians in Hebron. After all, who wouldn't want to be a Palestinian; you get some free "stuff" - no freeDOM, but hey, prison's like that.

Friday, October 21, 2005 12:34:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Comical_Ali,

However you paint your definition of enthnic cleasing, it still comes down to blatant racism and it is distrubing that that the subject is widely discussed in a demoractic and sphphicticated country like Israel.

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:31:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

What an incredibly stupid statement. In a democratic and free society, all sorts of ideas are discussed.

Censorship is the hallmark of the addamos and other supporters of fascism.

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:02:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibrahamav,

You never cease to amaze me. Did I say anything about shutting down freedom of speech? Are you not disturbed by the expression of anti-semitism? Do you in fact support enthnic-cleasing?

Is not tolerance a measure of society?

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:28:00 am  
Blogger James Waterton said...

Andre :

Was just searching for a particular thread when I stumbled across this:

Addamo_01 said...

Hello all,

I just thought I'd share this pearl for some light entertainment. It had me in stitches when I read it.

If there were any lingering doubts about just how dumb George W. Bush really is, let's revisit what he had to say in a White House speech given on July 2nd and broadcast live on C-Span. In this speech he mainly just talked with his supporters, instead of reading his lines from cue cards.

"It's good to have a wallet. Wallets is good. If you have a house you can put your wallet in your house. If you have a job you can come home from your job to your house. Americans love houses. Americans love freedom and they will not stand for terrorists stealing their wallets. The America I know will not let al-Qaeda in their houses. Americans will not stand for yellow cake from Niger in their wallets. Today Americans can be proud that Saddam does not have a job and does not have a wallet. God Bless America."
–George W. Bush

Not sure if the guy speaking was George Bush or Forrest Gump.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:59:32 AM
Antony Loewenstein said...

I'm proud to call that man our best ally.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:09:01 PM


Do you have video footage of this speech/statement that GWB apparently made?

Friday, October 21, 2005 4:44:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

James,

Sorry mate. It was posted on a forum. Some guy transcribed it from an interview he saw on C-Span.

Look, it could be a joke for all I know, but if you've ever seen Dubya in improvisation mode....well, you knwo what I'm saying.

It's worth a laugh, Will keep you posted if I find anything to support he authenticity.

Cheers

Friday, October 21, 2005 5:35:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

If there are any lingering doubts to the absolute worthlessness of an addamo post, they have been laid to rest.

Friday, October 21, 2005 5:42:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Oh come on you grumpy sod. You dind; tthink it was funny? Tell me, oh wise one, have you proof that this was not said?

Anyway, I did preface the post by saying it was on a ighter note - intended to bring some humour. My mistake. I know how much you hate it when people laugh Ibrahamav.

Friday, October 21, 2005 6:33:00 am  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

"There is a pretty obvious difference between ADVOCATING ethnic cleansing and PERFORMING ethnic cleansing. The settlers are only advocating it, not performing it."

you are absolutley right, there is a huge difference between advocating ethnic cleansing and actually carrying it out: while some Jews advocate it and are treated as a fringe element in Israeli society, the Arabs actually carry it out and adopt it as their official policy. The mass ethnic genocide of 1929 in Hebron is but one example out of many.

Ironically, whilst the Palestinian population has experienced the highest growth in the Arab world, Lowenstein has in the past actually accussed Israel of carrying out ethnic cleansing.

"You're invoking 1929 to "justify" crimes against humanity? Dear g~d! As if somehow evil is good if it is itself a response to evil. (It is as if Martin Buber never existed!)"

I invoke the 1929 mass genocide more out of a need to challange the notion that the Arabs are and have alwaYS been the innocent and blameless victims of this conflict. Its interesting how the role of "murderous settler" and the "murdered/displaced victim" can be suddenly reveresed when the facts start to pour in.

And did someone just say something about justifying crimes against humanity?
SO I guess it was the Jooz who actually ethnically cleansed Hebron of entire Arab population in 1929 and barred all Arabs from living there? And in turn the Jooz of course are recieving free eletrciity, water and gas at the expense of the Arab tax payer...

So who really is justifying crimes against humanity? Or better still over looking it?

Friday, October 21, 2005 11:30:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

No one would be so naive to suggest that the Palestinians are and have always been the innocent and blameless victims of this conflict.

On the other hand, it strikes me as futile to have to reach back to 1929 (or even 1936) for an example of genocide on the part of the Arabs.

Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:40:00 am  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

But thats exactly what you all have been doing - casting Israel as the aggressor and the Arabs as the blamless victim.


Futile to reach back to 1929?

Since the 1929 genocide, Jews were not allowed to live in Hebron until it was liberated from Arab control in 1967 by the Israelis. If it were not under Israeli hands, Jews to this day would be barred from living there. So its rather ironic to be crowing about ethnic cleansing or its advocation by Jews/Israelis when you have this going on behalf of the Arabs (and there is no mention of it what so ever by those barking about alleged Israeli human rights abuses).)

As for actually reaching back to 1929 just to get an example of Arab genocide there are literally tens of thousands of other examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_terrorism


This site alone cites that between 1949-1956, there were over 8,000 terror attacks and acts of genocide against Jewish civilians - 11 years before Israeli "occuppied" "palestinian" terroritory. That alone kinda refutes Jihadist propaganda claiming that Israeli "occupation" is the cause of terrorism.

Here are other exmaples:

terror attacks against Jewish civilians 1952- 89

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/terror1952_1989.html

Among the most notable attacks listed on this site is the Maalot school massacre in 1974, where 21 school children
were murdered along with seven of their teachers.

even more modern examples:

Terror attacks since Oslo

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/TerrorAttacks.html


Of course if I were to list the genocides that were commited prior to 1948 -- including bombings in Jerusalem which claimed 52 civilian lives two weeks prior to the establishment of Israel, or the Palestinian role in the Nazi Holocaust and murder of thousands of hungarian Jewish children --, we would be here all day. So no we dont have to go back to 1929.

Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:49:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

As I said earlier, to suggest anyone was blameless woudl be absurd, but let's not confude acts of terrorism with genocide.

I will be intersted to check out these links.

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:45:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Why not confuse them? Many supporters of palestinian suicide bombers state that Israel has commited genocide, indeed a palestinian holocaust, which incidently reduced the Palestinian population from 3 million to 9 million. (Reduced? Surely soming in my math is wrong)

Actually, under International agreements, the Palestinians have commited many acts of genocide.

Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:04:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Back to a lighter note, for those who don't belive us progressives have a sense of humour or who think our humour equates to fascism, check out the quicktime movie on http://www.onegoodmove.org/1gm/ It shows Bush giving an unscripted answer. Observe how this genius formulates an argument.

The answer was in response to a question about how the answers Harriet E. Miers provided to her judicial questionnaire were desxcribed by Republican and Democratic leaders as "inadequate," "insufficient" and "insulting."

Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:49:00 am  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

"As I said earlier, to suggest anyone was blameless woudl be absurd"

but thats exactly what you have all been doing.

"but let's not confude acts of terrorism with genocide."

excuse me, hows the indiscriminate cold blooded murder of a certain group of people (in this case Jews) not genocide?

The convenant of the PLO and Hamas is loud and clear.

Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:06:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

"but thats exactly what you have all been doing."

Prove it. I have never said that the Palestinians were innocent of crimes against the Israeli's. You are creating straw men in order to win an argument.

"excuse me, hows the indiscriminate cold blooded murder of a certain group of people (in this case Jews) not genocide?"

Not all crimes are indiscriminate and cold blooded. Some are acts of aggression, others are acts of revenge.

If the Jews are the enemy's of the Palestinian Arqabs, then they are inevitably going to be the recipients of Paletinian aggression and visa vera.

Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:54:00 pm  
Blogger Comical_Ali said...

"Prove it. I have never said that the Palestinians were innocent of crimes against the Israeli's. You are creating straw men in order to win an argument."

I was refering to "you" directly -- but to Lowenstein et-al in general. In addition,you need have not said that "Palesitnians were innocent of crimes against Israelis" -- the fact that these crimes are ommitted whilst alleged Israeli trangressions are at the centre of attention is enough.

"Not all crimes are indiscriminate and cold blooded. Some are acts of aggression, others are acts of revenge."

Have another look at the links that I posted -- 99.9% of the attacks consisted of shooting massaceres of innocent civilians in hotels, market places, beaches, primary school class rooms, synagogues, families gathered around the dinner table celebrating a religious festival, airports, airlines, not to mention suicide bombings of buses and shopping malls.

How are they not indisriminate and cold blooded?

These attacks are simply carried out at the behest of the PLO leadership who openly advocate mass genocide . If you want to dispute that fine. But then you will have to dispute all the very public statements and incitment to voilence which has come out of that leadership for over the past sixty years -- statements which have been documented and broadcast on Television and radio.

Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:48:00 pm  
Blogger Ian Westmore said...

ComicalAli said...

Of course if I were to list the genocides that were commited prior to 1948 -- including bombings in Jerusalem which claimed 52 civilian lives two weeks prior to the establishment of Israel,

I wonder what your reaction would be if the Aboriginal community started to take over where you live?

Moreover, to imply these "genocides" were one sided is disingenuous. The Haganah operated from 1920, the terrorist Irgun and Lochamei Herut Israel, aka Stern Gang, were also operating prior to 1939. Mass murder was committed by both sides before, during and after the establishment of Israel, including the infamous Qibya "genocide" committed by Sharon's 'Unit 101'

Genocides when one peoples takes over the territory of another is the norm rather than an exception. That isn't an apology for the practice, simply a ststement of fact. You live where you do because of past genocides!

or the Palestinian role in the Nazi Holocaust and murder of thousands of hungarian Jewish children --, we would be here all day.

Did the Palestinians deny the Hungarian Jews entry into Palestine? Did they have any say in the matter?

The answer to both questions is no. Palestine was governed by Britain. It was Britain who refused to allow Jews entry.

They were by no means the only ones, the few Jews to arrived here were interned in camps for the duration - remember the Dunera Boys.

True, the Mufti of Palestine openly sided with the Nazis. But to suggest this amounted to a "Palestinian" role in the Holocaust is the same as suggesting an American one because several prominent Americans openly supported and encouraged Hitler, at least until the US entered the war.

Monday, October 24, 2005 5:47:00 pm  

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