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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Wednesday, November 30, 2005

No play-lunch for you

Islamophobic Daniel Pipes thinks Muhammad Ali is a fundamentalist traitor to the American cause:

"Awarding of the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Muhammad Ali gratuitously celebrated a man profoundly opposed to Mr. Bush's own, his party's, and the country's principles. It represents, I submit, the nadir of his presidency."

Pipes wants to create an America where militant patriotism is taught in kindergarten.


Blogger Ibrahamav said...

On the surface, it does seem that Ali is unworthy of the honor, but I'm sure it has been tarnished by far greater villians.

Certainly not as bad as awarding a nobel peace prize to Arafat.

Certainly not an item that Pipes needed to harp on. Must have been a slow week.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:55:00 am  
Blogger Shabadoo said...

Of course, whatever you think of Islam in its various manifestations, you've got to admit that the "Nation of Islam" is a pretty screwy operation...

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:43:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Exceptionally. But it is so far outside the mainstream, most ignore it.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:39:00 am  
Blogger dingo said...

Thanks for your principled stands Mr. Loewenstein. I look forward to reading your book when it's published.

Muhammad Ali is a far greater American that the mental and moral pygmy who gave him the award. Ali rightfully opposed the vicious and illegal Vietnam war. Even one of its key architects, Robert McNamara, has belatedly realized the pathology of his own actions...too bad it cost 3 million or so lives before he figured it out.

As for Pipes...what is it about these Neo-cons that draw them to fascism like a moth to a flame? Is he hoping to be remembered as the Jewish Dr. Goebbels someday? You know, a vicious purveyor of ethnic strife, an enemy of liberalism and independent thought, and a champion of nationalist propaganda.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:41:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Ali opposed the war by accident, coached in the fine element by a black racist whose opposition had much to do with race hatred rather than actual humanitarian considerations.

You and your ilk will be remembered as neo-nazis long before anyone could possibly rationally link Pipes to anything other then careful independant thought, which you claim to worship but actually hate.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:55:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

When anti-Semitism isn't enough, throw in the neo-Nazi claim.
Ibrahamav, MATE, you really live a life of true delusion...

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:26:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

I guess he could have mentioned the irony that George Bush also avoided going to fight in Vietnam. Or, while Ali was fighting tough guys for a living George was a cheerleader and snorting coke. Or, when Ali had like minded fascists like Pipes screaming for his blood he told them to kiss his arse. Or, the reason Ali is "The Greatest" is not for his boxing abilities, but for being a courageous and magnificent human being. For him to belittle Ali is like a maggot trying to get the attention of a lion. Pipes is a piece of racist shit not worthy of further comment.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:10:00 pm  
Blogger Glenn Condell said...

O Danny boy
the Pipes, the Pipes are calling
from Glenn to Glenn...

if he wasn't so dangerous Pipes would be a laugh, the sort of militant axe-grinding Zionist Woody Allen had fun with as a brother in law in one of his movies.

It runs in the family...

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:00:00 pm  
Blogger David Heidelberg said...

black racist

How does that differ from a white racist Ibby, and why do you make the distinction.

Really, you've exposed your contempt for Arabs, your religious fundamentalism, now you're going after blacks? You have no credibility - you're a racist fool.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:45:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

AL, the "Jewish dr goebbels" and I brought up the nazi connection?

You are in la la land.

Ali is the 'greatest' for his boxing ability and charisma. Little else.

Heidi, Nation of islam is a racist organization. Yhat it appears to be a 100% Black organization lends it to a definition as a group of black racists. But like you, there is no difference between racists other than what they hate for no good reason.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"black racists"

You like categorising people according to race, don't you. I wonder why.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:03:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Indeed Eddie,; race, ethnicity and religion.

I'm surprised that Pipes can claim being opposed to Bush'd party and principals is any sort of criticism, but it speak svolumes abtou Pipes.

Nation of Islam itself seems pretty dubious to say the least, and they are very marginalised. As for Ali, he was a much more aware of his actions than he's given credit for.

I remember a commentary given about one particular fight Ali had with one of his "great white hope" oppnents (name alludes me). At the time, white Aemrican's were insisting on using the name Casius instead of Ali. In the fight, he kept tautning his opponent to (who had made racist slurs befpre the fight), asking him repeatedly ,"what's myname fool"?

Ali was truly an incredible figue adn will continue to be foor generations.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:30:00 am  
Blogger J F said...

Ali was probably the best professional boxer of his day. He has no other claim to fame.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:23:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Most white supremacists would agree.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:33:00 am  
Blogger J F said...

But, Ali might not have been as good as Teofilo Stevenson. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Actually, Henry Cooper might also have been better than Ali – he was robbed, as they say.

Oh yeah, if ever I meet a white supremacist I'll ask his opinion.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:13:00 am  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Ali has no other claim to fame other than boxing?
Jeez, some people don't get out much. Ask a generation of black Americans how they view his attitude towards the US govt and Vietnam. Proud and courageous...

Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:49:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

They are proud of Rodney King, too.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:13:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Ali remained an unabashed racist, calling for an American apartheid and the lynching of interracial couples as late as 1975.
In the years that mattered, Ali drove a wedge between the races. This may not have been evident to the cultural elite, but anyone who had been at Gary or like venues would know exactly what I mean.
He routinely denigrated black heroes who did not share his point of view, Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, and Thurgood Marshall among them.
He continuously belittled and undermined Christianity, a bedrock of cultural stability in black America.
Ali shamelessly courted some of the most brutal dictators on the planet: Qaddafi, Idi Amin, Papa Doc Duvalier, Nkrumah, Mobutu, Marcos.
One of those dictators, Mobutu Sese Seko Nkuku Wa Za Banga, was complicit in the death of the black nationalist hero, Patrice Lumumba.
Ali helped launch the career of Don King.
And, oh yes, he rejected his country in its hour of need and expressed no regret at the fate of those millions we all abandoned. The man who compelled him to do so had conspired with the Japanese and cheered them on at Pearl Harbor.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:26:00 am  

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