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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Monday, November 28, 2005

Caution noted

Peter Rodgers is a former Australian ambassador to Israel and author of the incisive book, Herzl's Nightmare. Unlike much of the international media, keen to salivate over Ariel Sharon and his "peace process", Rodgers rightly issues caution:

"And what of Sharon's political makeover? Has he really accepted that Israel's best chance for future security lies in the creation of a viable Palestinian state? He won international praise for his mid-2005 withdrawal of Israeli settlers from Gaza. Not surprisingly, this move was portrayed as a painful concession by Israel to the Palestinians.

"In reality the winner was Israel itself, which continues to exercise a veto over everyday Gazan life without having to risk too many Israeli lives."

The Palestinians have their own problems, too. Internal division, Hamas as a political force and the ongoing occupation.

31 Comments:

Blogger orang said...

Being witness to Israelly meanderings regarding their search for "peace" is like watching a pantomime. You know the ending, yet you have to sit through endless scenes of bad acting and ambiguous subplots before the end will come. They are so clever don't you know. While everybody know that 2+2=4, they keep devising new theorems, creating new splendiferous mathematic principles to prove that 2+2 will in fact =5. See?

Sorry guys, but as long as you treat the Palis like you do you will never belong to the civilised world. I know it ain't easy, but try harder.

Monday, November 28, 2005 11:49:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

There's no avoiding this fact, no matter how fast you spin it. Good post Orang.

Monday, November 28, 2005 12:33:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Israel realizes that the only chance for security is complete divorce from the Palestinian people, sort of a restraint order against the Palestinians.

The best way to do this is expell all non-citizen palestinians and complete the wall. Then leave the Palestinas to their own devices. Perhaps the Europeans will rescue them.

Monday, November 28, 2005 2:54:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

What a great idea!
Israel will be a Jewish-only state, with no Palestinians or Arabs at all?
Now, I'm a little confused. Havn't some others tried something similiar in the past?

Monday, November 28, 2005 3:01:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

You know about the only country to support South Africa near the end of their Apartheid catastrophe was Israel. Correct me if I'm wrong - please.

Monday, November 28, 2005 3:17:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Sadly, Israel did support apartheid South Africa, with a handful of other rogue states.

Monday, November 28, 2005 3:24:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

One wonders if the US will continue to act as sugar daddy to Israel when all the Arabs are gone.

I doubt Israel will stop looking for elbow room in the region, which will probably lead to more conflict with more Arabs.

What's a rogue state to do?

Monday, November 28, 2005 3:40:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

Actually, the really sad fact is that it is the Palestinians who have no legal right to be squatting on the West Bank. All the laws favour Israel.

Until these people are able to face up to the fact that it is their own "family" -Egypt, Jordan, and Syria that has put them in this mess, life and their future future will remain bleak for them.

Also, I must insist that grown adults cease and desist with Edward Said. Are you people serious? I can't believe that you would accept the hopelessly ignorant and serial liar Edward Said as an authority on these matters!

It really saddens me that so many people, particularly western middle-class university types who treat "Orientalism" as though it were unassailable holy scripture, the second law of thermodynamics or DNA code!

Said was a crank and an intellectual crook. True historians see him for what he was: a lying opportunistic whinger who simply could not admit that the Arab muslim world started to die in the 15th century, and that they haven't had the balls to admit ever since.

Enough already! What is wrong with these people? If it's not the Mongols, the Turks, the Persians, it's the British, the French, the Americans and "the Jews.

Time for them to grow up, shut up, and stop boring the shit out of the rest of us.

Monday, November 28, 2005 8:46:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Smearing Said. Anything else in that veritable bag of tricks?

Monday, November 28, 2005 10:00:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Funny how antony equates deporting non-citizens with Israel being arabrein. I though only antisemites used that means to confuse the issue.

There are 1.2 million or so Arab citizens of Israel who are not Jewish. There are another 2 million or more Arab citizens in Israel who are Jewish. In fact, it could be said that israel is now an Arab state.

So your question was designed to make what statement?

As for South Africa, I wondered why Tutu and mandela lie so much about Israel. Now I know, they are so pissed off they are willing to do anything immoral to get even.

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:23:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"As for South Africa, I wondered why Tutu and mandela lie so much about Israel. Now I know, they are so pissed off they are willing to do anything immoral to get even."

Huh? I don't understand that. What are they "pissed off" at?

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:49:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I don't doubt that you lack understanding.

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:08:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Can you explain what you mean when you say Tutu and Mandela "are so pissed off"? I really do want to know - seriously.

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:52:00 pm  
Blogger Mannie said...

I don't really think he can possibly explain what he means about Tutu and Mandela because he obviously doesn't know the first thing about either of them!

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:53:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Good one mannie, it was so clever. Joining addamo's ass licking society?

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:05:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Yes our alliance of logic, reason and compassion is growing Ibraham. Does it feel like the walls are closing in?

Should you ever decide you want to give up drinking human blood, you are welcome to join us.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:48:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Your alliance to a fellow antisemitic dillitante is what you meant to write, but just couldn't think of it fast enough, could you.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:16:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Spoken like a true paranoid schizophrenic. Are those giant spiders appearing on your bedroom walls again? I think you need to up your prescription to a higher dose.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:17:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

As if you knew how one spoke.

Go back to school. Get some real credentials. Your credibility is shot. Your jsut a school boy who blew his wad and your all out.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:42:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

So Ibraham, what are your credentials? You have apparently exposed me as a fraud, so perhaps it's time you shared your great academic achievments with the rest of us.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:30:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Glad to see you finally admitted the truth. Don't you feel better now?

You want to know my credentials? Why? There is no way for you to check them. And you're not that important enough for me to brag.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:04:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Fascinating logic, Ibraham. So by your reasoning, if I have no way of checking your credentials, how is it that you've convinced yourself that you've been able to check mine?

Damn, there you go getting that mouth of yours stuck in that mouse trap again!! You must be getting so tired of outsmarting yourself.

I didn't expect you to measure up to the challenge.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:59:00 am  
Blogger Mannie said...

Being a South African gives one a perspective of the old apartheid years of the Israel-South African alliance and also how South African zionist Jews reacted then and now to Israel's apartheid state - the old British colonial approach - divide and rule.
It also gives an approach of how to live in a Jew-hating society - the Nationalist government only tolerating Jews in South Africa because the Nats admired the Israelis and needed their scientific expertise to develop the nuclear device they exploded.
Tutu and Mandela have the same moralities as most other politicians around the world, but in most respects come out cleaner than their denigrators and opponents.
Whatever they may have said about Israeli politics must be several degrees higher than the hypocritical stance of so many others of the world's politicians who say one thing for their adoring publics but do other things behind their backs!
Oh, and no doubt Tutu and Mandela must be anti-semites as well!!

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:22:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

But anyway .... Ibrahamav, I really do what to know what you mean when you say Tutu and Mandela "are so pissed off". Can you even just give a hint or a link? Anything at all would be nice.

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:29:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Since Israel doesn't have an apartheid state, seeing that 1.2 million islamiic arabs are full voting and participating citizens and that 10% of the Israeli governing body is Arab Islamic, it must be concluded that Manny doesn't know what he is talking about.

While Mandela comes out cleaner because of his extensive time in prison preventing him from taking part in all of the areas of corruption available to most politicians, and Tutu's religious background prevented him from those same influences, it did not prevent them from developing a desire to take revenge on those who sided with their enemies.

Their morality only goes so far.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:46:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham,

You can be very eloquent and communicative when you want to be. Interesting post.

I agree that public persona of Mandela and Tutu have benefitted from matters beyond their control, but I am curious as to what you mean by their desire to take revenge on those that sided with their enemies.

Can you point to an example of how they have done so, or are you merely suggesting they have demonstrated thei hostility towards those that sided with their enemies?

Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:20:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

They have demonstrated their hostility towards those that sided with their enemies.

Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:03:00 am  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

Am I missing something here? Can somebody please explain how many times black South Africans were offered UN-sanctioned solutions, billions of dollars, etc. to settle a dispute that was started by the blacks in the first place.

NONE! I'm sure the blacks would have killed for all the opportunities the "Palestinians" have had. And for the love of god, why the hell should the aggressors be rewarded?

Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:25:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Lefty, I think you worded it incorrectly but I understand what your concern is.

In all fairness, the situation in South Africa has almost nothing in common with Israel. It is just a ploy used by pro-palestinians as a way to embarrass the pro-israel groups.

Israel allied itself militarily and economically with South Africa while SA, morally, should have been, and was, repugnant to almost all Jews and israelis.

All comparrisons between the two are merely skin deep. This type propaganda is mostly of the bait type. Trying to get a reaction.

Friday, December 02, 2005 4:18:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"Lefty, I think you worded it incorrectly but I understand what your concern is."

Ibrahamav, of course the sentences are worded "incorrectly" - they weren't written by you. That is the only anything can ever be worded "correctly". Everyone knows that.

Remember: your opinion on all things is always the right one.......in Teenager Land.

Friday, December 02, 2005 10:53:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

My opinion of you is right, regardless of the land it is in.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:58:00 am  

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