Yesh Gvul
Courage To Refuse
Shministim
Pilots
Free The Five
New Profile
Refuser Solidarity Network


Name: Antony Loewenstein
Home: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Comment Rules
About Me:
See my complete profile



Google
Web antonyloewenstein.blogspot.com
Sweat-Shop Productions
Sweat-Shop Productions
Sweat-Shop Productions



Blogs

Sites




Previous Posts



Powered by Blogger

 


Thursday, January 05, 2006

Settling scores

This story challenges any number of stereotypes:

"The Tel Aviv District Court on Tuesday sentenced Meir Amar, the son of Chief Sephardic Rabbi Shlomo Amar, to a prison term of two years and eight months.

"As part of a plea bargain, Amar was convicted of kidnapping a youth involved in a romantic relationship with his sister Ayala, as well as abuse of a minor, illegal confinement, extortion, threats, and causing bodily harm."

Jewish extremism is as dangerous and irrational as any other religious perversion.

52 Comments:

Blogger Ibrahamav said...

But he didn't kill him, or try to kill him. So that sets his morality light years ahead of the typical Muslim extremist.

Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:35:00 pm  
Blogger asdfsdafsda said...

ibrahamav once again dispels the stereotype that all Jews are smart by simply existing.

Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:48:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

This is not abot being Jewish or otherwise, but about a nutter who was overly possessive of his sister.

All it tells us is that Jews are not immune to mental illness.

Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:49:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

What it does tell us is that extremism on the Judaic side normally does not lead to killing someone, as it so often does on the Islamic side.

Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:05:00 pm  
Blogger Shabadoo said...

Further to the point, as bad as this is, it's not like anyone's trying to establish a global orthodox Jewish ummah...though one could develop a pretty funny stand-up routine around that idea...

Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:15:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Shabadoo said...
"as bad as this is, it's not like anyone's trying to establish a global orthodox Jewish ummah"

What on earth does this gross, ill-informed international geo-political generalisation have to do with some guy going off the deep end over his sister? Nothing.

Some years ago, a father, brandishing a shotgun and accompanied by his two sons, turned up at a Uni of Western Sydney campus looking for his daughter. He believed she was in a clandestine relationship with a boy. He was Greek. Nobody launched into a polemic on the desires of the Orthodox Church to see the world converted to the true Christianity before the end of days. Nor did anyone see this as part of a grand plan on the part of right-wing Greek extremists to return Greece to the glory days of Alexandrian 'global' domination. Why? Because no-one at the time was a complete moron.

Thursday, January 05, 2006 6:58:00 pm  
Blogger violet said...

Well, this is an interesting set of comments.

If I'd written the above post in the same manner as Antony about a Muslim cleric's son, you all would have accused me of racism and ignorance.

According to Antony, it's fine to generalise about cultures and religions and call them examples of dangerous extremism -- so long as they're Jewish!

Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:42:00 pm  
Blogger Melanie said...

I think the main point is that he was convicted and jailed. Even though he was the son of the Chief Rabbi, it was recognised that this was a dispicable act. So while 'Jewish extremism is as dangerous and irrational as any other religious perversion,' Israel recognises ALL extremism as such. Well done Antony for once again showing Israel upholding the law without discrimination.

Friday, January 06, 2006 12:19:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

On the contrary Violet,

I don't recall myself or anyone esle refuting the incidents you have cited or their cause. They are inded of major concern and do need to be addressed.

I personalyl think thsi article is a non event. As Edward pointed out, you could cite similar examples in the Greek community, or perhaps even the Christian Lebanese community.

What has been of conern for me personally has been the suggestion that vocal critics of the war are being inisincere because their outrage over human rigts abuses against Muslims makes them appologists for the way women are treeated in those communities.

As I pointed out, the current climate , where men, women and children are dying at an alarming rate from violence is posing a graver risk to human rights than the subjugation of women. A woman being raped in Fallujah is shameful, but when there are thousands dying from the US onslaught, it tends to become less significant.

What I am curious about is what you have to say about instances of women being murdered a the hands of non-muslims, say in the case of a 56 year old woman who was shot in her own house for insisting on covering herself before US soldiers entered, or the 13 year old Palestinian girl who was shot 17 times for string into a secure zone adjacent to an IDF check point.

Are you coing to excuse these incidents on the basis tha they were not killed becasue they were women, even though it goies without sayin gthat they woudl not have been killed because they not been muslims?

Friday, January 06, 2006 12:40:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Please excuse my abismal typing and have another go:

Are you coing to excuse these incidents on the basis that they were not killed becasue they were women, even though it goes without saying that they would not have been killed had they not been muslims?

Friday, January 06, 2006 1:14:00 am  
Blogger Melanie said...

addamo - Women are being murdered by their own families for honour. That woman being raped in Fallujah is enough to disgrace her family and warrant her death sentence. Thousands of Iraqis are being killed by insurgents - mainly for being Shiite. Failing to acknowledge who is really doing the killing and wanting to believe so much that they are continuing to die due only to the US onslaught is the reason there is becoming a massive rift in the anti-war lefties. It's all about factal correctness - as I mentioned on a previous post. You're concerned about the vocal critics but you really should be concerned that you are kidding yourself.

Friday, January 06, 2006 1:37:00 am  
Blogger Melanie said...

And one more thing addamo - the fact that many people on 'anti-war' front are so hell bent on bringing down the US and Israel that the truly forgotten people are those they claim to be acting on behalf of. That is why I keep claiming that no-one who says they support the Palestinians really cares about them because if they did they would attack the corruption and abuse that goes unreported within Palestinian society because you believe it doesn't benefit the cause. Hmmm. Listen to yourself. It's the old - the end justifies the means even if we have to turn a blind eye to that women in Fallujah - but the moral dilemmas is causing a major rift, especially because the society your turning a blind eye to is increasingly showing to be not so pretty.

Friday, January 06, 2006 2:08:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Melanie,

Unfortunately you and Violet are the ones kidding yourselves. You are being vocal about honor killings and yet, you shrug your shoulders at the illegal and unnecessary war that in being conducted. In case you didn’t know, unprovoked acts of aggression are considered by the Nuremberg principals to be the greatest of war crimes, differing from other war crimes in that it encompasses all war crimes. Who's reality is distorted here?

Thousand of Iraqi's are being killed because they are Iraqi's. The US calls them collateral damage, to make people like you and Violet feel better, and so as to include the toll among the material property that is also being destroyed.

I know you mean well, but your ignorance in astounding. In Fallujah and Tel Afar alone, US forces cut of electricity and water to the towns. They denied aid workers from delivering medicines and water in the middle of a drought, to the residents. US forces insisted that Fallujah was empty at the time of the assault when in fact 30-50 thousand people remained - most to defend their homes. Yet the US forces stipulated that anyone who remained would be considered an enemy combatant/terrorist. US troops were then ORDERD to shoot anything that moved.

14 people were killed earlier this week from a misguided US bomb. How many insurgents do you think such an event will produce? Have you no clue about the Badr and Wolf Brigade death squads and the carnage they are wreaking on Sunnis, all with the approival of the US occupation? Probayl not becasue all you read abotu is how evil and mindless the Sunni insurgents are. Now tell me who is doping the killing? How many car bombs were going off in Iraq before 2003?

For God’s sake people, rapes and honor killings would have been the least of the concerns of the residents of Fallujah. A year has passed and since hte second invasion and it is still extremely dangerous for reporters to enter the city unembedded. There was a post on this blog recently from an unembedded reporter, which was probably thee first in 12 months fro mthe Murcoh Times in London and it was a chillin read by any standards. Do you think that a woman who dies from an honor killing suffers any more than one who’s limbs are torn from her body from a 500 pound bomb or who’s flesh is melted to her bones from White Phosphorous?

The hospitals were closed down in both towns so that the injured could not receive treatment. Again, these acts are described by the Nuremberg Principals as war crimes and are blatant acts of collective punishment.

I have yet to hear either one of you even bother to address the issue of the 13 year old girl being shot 17 times (in spite of the IDF soldiers acknowledging at the time that she was scared to death) or the 56 year old Iraqi woman who was shot 4 times in her own home for insisting that she cover herself before US soldiers stormed her home. Do you honetly doubt that both women would still be alive today is they were not Muslim.

So what’s your position? That ethnic cleansing (at the hands of non muslims) is fine and dandy, but honor killings are to be deplored?

Factal correctness appears to be the least of your priorities.

Friday, January 06, 2006 2:18:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Melanie,

Your train wreck of logic is going from bad to worse.

In the same week that the worst corruption/lobbyong scandal is breaking out in Washingotn, you choose to talk abtou Palestinian corruption? Money from American Indains is diverted without their knowledge or consent to arming Israeli extremists and you have the gall to sugegst I'm the one kidding myself?

Anyway, read my post and do some research, becasue you obcviously haven't got any grip on the what is taking place in iraq right now.

Furthermore, like Violet, you seem to lack the capacity to understand that crioticism of US and Israli foreign policy is not the same thing as having a desire to bring down the US and Israel. This reptettitive pattern is becomming very predictable among the right wing, especally pro Zionists.

Straw man arguments are becomming so parse. Try listening to what we have to say rather than inventing our reasoning.

Friday, January 06, 2006 2:26:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Another set of misinformation coated with addamo. The stench is nauseating.

Now we get addamoish staement trying to equate muslim honor killings of their own women with the often accidental death of muslim women at time of war.

What sickness. What addamo.

Friday, January 06, 2006 5:12:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Can you not for once Ibraham, not drag the debate into the gutter?

let me make this simple. If I decide to have a drag race with an opponent down the footpath of a street during rush hour, are the deaths that ensue accidental? After all, my intention is not to hit people but to beat my opponent?

When civilians are killed in Iraq, what is the standard defense used by apologists? This is war. War is a dirty game. People die in wars. Right?

So how do you stop people dying in wars Ibraham? I give you three guesses.

As for honor killings. The are despicable yes. Mostly because the victim is blameless right? Violet has provided examples of how victims of rape are often punished for failing to prevent the rape or failing to fight off their oppressor.

Now let’s consider 1991, when the US signed the UN resolutions calling for the disarmament of Iraq, resolutions the US helped draft. The resolutions stipulated that sanctions would remain in place until Iraq complied. That same year, George H W Bush sated that the sanctions would remain in place so long as Saddam remained in power, even if Iraq disarmed.

So to use an analogy, the people of Iraq were punished for 10 years because they were unable to overcome their oppressor. The half a million children that died were punished for not overthrowing their oppressor. If you like, this was an honor killing of a genocidal scale.

I know it’s a little late, but if you’re still with me, how about we both make a resolution of our own and agree to keep things civilized on the list for 2006? Attack our views without attacking each other?

Think you can do that?

Friday, January 06, 2006 5:39:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

When you stop pulling m,aterial from the gutter, the debate can be loftier. Until then, there is no reason not to litter this thread with more addamo.

What kind of sicko equates protection of a civilian population with drag racing on a crowded street? No relationship, just more addamo.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:23:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

here's another example of an addamoish analogy:
"So to use an analogy, the people of Iraq were punished for 10 years because they were unable to overcome their oppressor. The half a million children that died were punished for not overthrowing their oppressor. If you like, this was an honor killing of a genocidal scale."

Saddam punished his people by refusing them care. That is what caused half a million deaths. He used the funds he received and stole to build palaces and buy more weapons. Only someone with addamo for brains can think otherwise.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:25:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Right Ibraham, that's why Madelaine Arlbright said that half a million dead children was a worthwhile cost.

Can you explain the US changing it's mind (illegally mind you) that the sanctions were no longer about disarmament but about regime chaneg, when the UN resolutions they helped draft made no mention of regime change?

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:36:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Keep pouring out the addamo. Evenually you'll be out of it and you'll actually need to read the truth rather than toss out addamo and watch it fall back on the pile.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:44:00 am  
Blogger violet said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:49:00 am  
Blogger violet said...

addamo

You continue to draw a moral equivalence between deliberate acts of murder, rape and violence against women that are sanctioned and rewarded by the state and acts committed by soldiers within the context of the battlefield -- which will be investigated and court marshalled by the established governments of the day. Yes, atrocotities happen at the hands of neglectful and irresponsible soldiers -- but haven't you noticed yet -- that there are consequences?

Look at Abu Ghraib, the perpetrators were prosecuted -- as well, they should have been. When Saddam Hussein used Abu Ghraid for torturing his own people -- were there consequences? No. What do you think will happen to the soldier who shot an Iraqi woman? I'll tell you. If your account is correct, there will be a court marshall. And military law is a lot harsher than civilian law -- there won't be any plea bargaining.

Unlike the Islamic village courts who condone violence against women and westerners -- crimes committed on the battlefield are investigated and punished. Leftists don't appear to recognise a difference between the battlefield and the street. And their attempt to draw a moral equivalence between the two is, and has always been, idiotic. Soldiers are awarded medals for doing things that would award them a life sentence in civilian life.

And when Antony scans the papers searching for the transgressions of USA soldiers -- and posts them as if he has uncovered a great plot -- he misses an important point. That is, that transgressors will be pulled out and punished. Democracies, like armies, are not perfect instruments, there will always be bad eggs -- and when they are fished out and punished, we know we are doing our job.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:57:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Out of it? I don't follow. You really do love ot talk in riddles don't you Ibby?

What's am I pouring on Ibraham? Are you disputing what Madelaine Albright said? Are you disputing that George H W Bush, James Baker, and Sandy Berger, all said that teh sanctions against iraq would remain in place so long as Saddam was in power, in spite of the fact that UN resolutions they helped draft, made no mention of regime change?

Sorry Ibraham, I'm afarid I could not cast my lot with people who wantonly and indiscriminately call for the mass murder of thousands of innocent civilians. Y'see, I do not buy the flawed moral equivalence of absurd mathematical equations like the following, Saddam Hussein = the people of Iraq. To me, this is the same as going into a house where the father has abused and traumatized his children, but instead of apprenhending the father and bringing succour to the children, the 'liberator' goes in and murders the children. The way I see it, the intervention punishes the Iraqi people on behalf of a dictator they neither chose nor condoned. Then, to aggravate the insult, you give him due process while you give them ... well, you know what you give them.

Now that should make sense even to you Ibraham.

Friday, January 06, 2006 7:58:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You've crawled through so much addamo that you have no idea what you are babbling about.

Friday, January 06, 2006 8:07:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

addamo

” Yes, atrocotities happen at the hands of neglectful and irresponsible soldiers -- but haven't you noticed yet -- that there are consequences?”

Consequences are only dished out when there is someone to report the incident. The countless incidents that are not reported (seeing as most of Iraq is too dangerous for reporters to enter) will remain unreported. Do you care to inform me of a single incident where a soldier has faced these consequences absent of the event not first being reported in the media?

”Look at Abu Ghraib, the perpetrators were prosecuted -- as well, they should have been.”

A very bad example which proves my point. The show trials took place after photographs of the crimes were released to the public. A few sacrificial lambs were paraded in in front of the camera to satisfy the public. Those at the top, who were aware of what was taking place remain untouched.

There was an avalanche of denials, and here we have the Bush administration arguing for the right to use torture.

Meanwhile, the second batch of Abu Graib photographs, depicting murder, rape, and which have been described as far worse than the first batch, are being withheld from the public.

The batch includes video tape said to include the rape of a child in front of his mother.

Where are the prosecutions Violet?

“When Saddam Hussein used Abu Ghraid for torturing his own people -- were there consequences? No.”

And nothing has changed. The reason the Pentagon is withholding the second batch of photographs and video tapes is because they are afraid of the public reaction and will be forced to take action against those who were instructed to carry out these shameful acts.

“What do you think will happen to the soldier who shot an Iraqi woman? I'll tell you. If your account is correct, there will be a court marshall. And military law is a lot harsher than civilian law -- there won't be any plea bargaining.”

Oh really. Did you hear about the US soldier who forced Iraqi men, who could not swim, to jump off a bridge into a river and drown. He was given 6 months.

”Unlike the Islamic village courts who condone violence against women and westerners -- crimes committed on the battlefield are investigated and punished.”

No different to the US soldiers who stormed Fallujah and were order tot shoot anything that moves. They will not be punished either.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/13/iraq/main655523.shtml
http://www.wildfirejo.org.uk/feature/display/114/index.php

“Leftists don't appear to recognise a difference between the battlefield and the street.”

Actually we do, that’s why we are against the idea of war. It’s he right wingers who seem to be oblivious to reality.

“And their attempt to draw a moral equivalence between the two is, and has always been, idiotic. Soldiers are awarded medals for doing things that would award them a life sentence in civilian life.”

Idiotic is refusing to recognize that the war was not necessary and still claim that the ensuing deaths are unintended. The US soldier who shot the 56 year old Iraqi woman will probably get a medal too.

”And when Antony scans the papers searching for the transgressions of USA soldiers -- and posts them as if he has uncovered a great plot -- he misses an important point. That is, that transgressors will be pulled out and punished. Democracies, like armies, are not perfect instruments, there will always be bad eggs -- and when they are fished out and punished, we know we are doing our job.”

Oh Violet get a grip. I’m sure you have to go looking for the shameful acts of violence against Muslim women inflicted by their families. Does this make the events any less significant? What’s your point?

You’re naivety is a sight to behold, but it is endearing. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the reality is that the majority of war crimes will go unreported and unpunished.

Friday, January 06, 2006 8:24:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Sorry the post was addressed to Violet not myself.

And Ibraham, if you want to continue to abuse me, you might as well use my name which is Andre.

Friday, January 06, 2006 8:31:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Incidently Violet,

In case you srill think the invasion of Iraq was a noble cause, and that the violence in Iraq being inflicted by extremists was all an accident, you might want to read this:

Avoiding attacking suspected terrorist mastermind
Abu Musab Zarqawi blamed for more than 700 killings in Iraq
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/

If you can't come up with a reason for invading Iraq, why not invent one?

Friday, January 06, 2006 8:41:00 am  
Blogger Lisa said...

I'm with Adamo here. Mental illness strikes anyone in any religion. I'm not convinced it's about religious extremism. It's just extemism, and because the biggest difference between the 'me' and 'him' is most often perceived to be religion in the middle east, it comes to seems like it's all about religious extremism.

Friday, January 06, 2006 12:11:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Yes. He is mentally ill. There is no doubt.

What's all this addamo about tapes the pentagon is with holding. And some fool knows all about them? Sounds like addamo to me.

We don't have to look for the shameful acts committed by muslims against women. It is reported in the papers almost every day.

Friday, January 06, 2006 3:03:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham,

I'm surprised you havent't heard about the ACLU taking the Pentagon to court and winning to obtain these items (i.e. photographs, videotapes etc). The Pentagon was givena chance to appeal, which explains why this stuff has not been released to the public.

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fisher.php?articleid=6748
http://italy.indymedia.org/news/2005/04/763086.php
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5092776/site/newsweek/

Now do I get an appology?

Friday, January 06, 2006 3:29:00 pm  
Blogger Stev said...

I have to ask Ib, do you possess a psychology degree with which to diagnose Addamo as mentally ill? Or are you using a condition which causes pain and suffering for millions of people worldwide, not to mention their friends and family, to make a personal attack?

If, as I suspect, it is the latter - how can you honestly expect anyone to respect you or your opinions?

Friday, January 06, 2006 5:12:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I have to ask stev if he/she/it actually expects anyone to be bothered with such a ridiculous question. Is stev full of addamo?

Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:04:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibby,

You said there was no doubt I was mentally ill. Stev asked you a simple quesrion. Is your certainty that I am metally ill is based on informed opinion or a childish frustration that my opinion differs from yours?

Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:12:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

stev did not ask a simple question. A simple question is 'Does fresh addamo smell?' That is a simple question.

Even your exposition of stev's question proves it was not a simple question.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:51:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

So Stev's question was too difficult for you, or do you need more time to prepare an answer?

To repeat the question:

"...do you possess a psychology degree with which to diagnose Addamo as mentally ill?

Or are you using a condition which causes pain and suffering for millions of people worldwide, not to mention their friends and family, to make a personal attack?"

Take your time. I'm crurious but in no hurry.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:09:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

No, stev did not ask a simple question. That statement was meant to allay your fears that a simple question was not answered.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:36:00 am  
Blogger Stev said...

It's a multiple choice question with only two answers, how simple do you need it to be?

The second question is a 'how', that's a little more difficult. You can avoid that one if you like, but I'd appreciate an answer to the first.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:22:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Your question or stev's? And what you do, or don't, appreciate is not my concern.

Besides, I'm too busy wiping the addamo off my shoes.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:17:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Oh boy, looks like Ibby's having one of those conversations with the voices in his head again.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:36:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

No it doesn't. It looks like I'm wiping addamo off my shoes.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:40:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Notice how the debate was kinda skimming along until Ibrahamav turned up to kill it and drag it away into his cave?

Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:12:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

It was skimming until the addamo started to fly over some moron attempting to morally equate the deliberate murder of civilians by suicide bombing with collateral damage caused when fighting a force that uses the civilian population as a shield.

Then the same moron started in with secret tapes being held by the pentagon.

It became too much bulladdamo for a debate.

Saturday, January 07, 2006 11:58:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

So you have proof Ibraham, that such tapes do not exist?

And you have proof that in spite of being given orders to shoot anythying that moved, US soldiers are good enought to stop and ask peopel if they are innocent bystanders or insurgents before shooting them in the back?

Do you proof that the US soldier who forced the Iraqi men to jump into the river, was made sure they had life vests to ensure they woudl float to safety?

You are beyond hillarious Ibraham. Calling that collateral damage would like me arguing that the woman and her 4 children were not shot intentionlly, but that the gun that killed them suffered from a faulty trigger.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:32:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Do you have proof that Addamo is not a pedaphile? No parent will take your word for it. I believe they want that proof coming from a source more credible then you or your parents.

I guess you'll need signed notarized statements from the police that you have never been suspected in any case and a notarized letter from your psychiatrist that you have no such tendancies.

Until then, I believe the safe thing to do is to consider that you are such and ensure that no child is ever within 300 meters of you, and that you not be allowed to live within one kilometer of a school.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:36:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham,

I provided evidence that such crimes were perpetrated. You are just talking absolute nonsense - which you always do when your argument is defeated and you are out of you intellectual depth.

You poor sorry pathetic irreconcilable sod. Finished throwing those puppies in the blender yet? Sounds like your in need of a drink.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:15:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You have not provided evidence that secret tapes exist. Nor have you provided proof that you are not a pedaphile.

But you have provided proof that you are full of addamo.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:05:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

You want more proof Ibraham?

Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."
http://radio.weblogs.com/0107946/2004/07/14.html#a1922

Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Photos
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842

US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1217973,00.html

The American Civil Liberties Union sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes as part of an October 2003 lawsuit demanding information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture. The ACLU contends that prisoner abuse is systemic.
http://www.atsnn.com/story/174039.html

The court document
www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/aclu%20v.%20dod%20declaration%20of%20michael%20e.%20pheneger.pdf

More Images Of Abu Ghraib
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/22/opinion/main791067.shtml

There you go Ibraham. Of course I don’t expect you to be offended by any of this. It’s the stuff you would probably rent to get off on.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:19:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Then the tapes are not secret. Whatever tapes you are talking about are well known, have been seen, but have not been released to the public.

Next you'll be telling us about Bush's secret sex life. That he screws his wife in the white house and we're not allowed to see the tapes doesn't make it a secret. But still no proof to your innocence to the charge of pedaphilia.

Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:49:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

NO poroof of my innocents Ibby no. You'll just have to take my word for it I'm afraid. Just like there is no proof yo are not a neo-Nazi, blood drinking santanist.

The existenc of the tapes is no secrfet but the Pentagon is trying to keep the contents from public view - which kind of makes the conntents secret.

Monday, January 09, 2006 3:46:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Kind of? Sorry, that doesn't wash. Not that you had any credibility to begin with.

Just proves you're full of addamo.

Monday, January 09, 2006 3:14:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Explain why the tapes have not been made public if they are not secret?

Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:19:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

So the tapes exist, everyone nows knows what is on them, so they can't be secret.

Perhaps there is something about the english language that puzzles you? Just knock on your head and eddie will answer.

Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:30:00 am  

Post a Comment

<< Home