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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Saturday, February 04, 2006

Equal time

"My message to the West - to America, to Europe, to everybody - is this: Hamas wants peace. We hate bloodshed and killing. We don't want to fight. There is a verse in the Qur'an that says whoever kills one soul kills all souls. And whoever brings life to people brings life to a nation.

"Our problem is with the Israeli occupation. Israelis are killing our children. The West has been oppressive, too. You are biased toward Israel. You support Israel. You are capable of telling Israel, 'Enough.' You are capable of telling Israel to withdraw. Why is the West concerned about the security of Israel and not concerned about our security?

"The West has nothing to fear from Hamas. We're not going to force people to do anything. We will not impose Sharia. Hamas is contained. Hamas deals only with the Israeli occupation. We are not Al Qaeda."


Blogger psydoc said...

well I feel all warm inside from that one.

This statement should contrast with the greater Palestine ambitions of his leader Mahmoud Al Zahar : "Palestine means Palestine in its entirety - from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, from Ras Al-Naqura to Rafah. We cannot give up a single inch of it. Therefore, we will not recognize the Israeli enemy's [right] to a single inch. That is one thing"

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri vehemently denied that there was any contradiction between the election platform and Hamas's charter: "The platform refers to details and implementation methods for the next four years, while the charter lays out our permanent strategic views."

The charter of course comes right out of Nazism. Don't believe me?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

"This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."

Drifters and dreamers who need to suspend disbelief in order to place all judgement in hope rather than reality need to appreciate something. Antony is happy his Jewish bretheren to face the consequences of his muddled ideological convictions.

It is apalling that the intellectual disconnect would allow anyone to consider Hamas as being anything other than a murderous terrorist regime that engenders local legitimacy by the provision of social services. Something criminal gangs such as the mafia have done many time.

Let them abandon their raisen detre of Islamic domination and eradication of Israel (and other bigotted statements) and perhaps (as repugnant as it would be) doors may open to them. Until then, why would you be an Islamist apologist Ant? It can't really be worth the book sales can it?

Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:10:00 am  
Blogger weekbyweek said...

The only viable option is for the election of Kadima, and the continuation of the policy of Isreal's disengagment from the Palestinians via a pull out from the West Bank, and importantly to that policy the completion of "The Fence' thus creating a phsyical separation between the two.

Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:17:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...


TOo bad that Hamas would have remained an unrealised vision had it not been for Israel's supports and financial aid.

Meanwhile, Bush and his pro war jackals were all gloating about the pro-democracy wave sweeping the Middle East. It's workig better than even they imagined

You reap what you sew.

Saturday, February 04, 2006 12:41:00 pm  
Blogger psydoc said...

You reap what you sew? Oh yes Ant has tried that one here too. The Jews apparently gassed themselves in Nazi Germany. Quite an accomplishment that one.

Saturday, February 04, 2006 12:56:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

For comeone who harasses AL obsessively abotu avoiding issues, that was quite a side step.

Did Israel support Hamas or did they not? Did the US support the Mujahhadeen or did they not? Did the US support Saddam or did they not? Did Israel support Iran in the war with Iraq or did it not?

Isnlt reality a bitch?

Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:17:00 pm  
Blogger James Waterton said...

Addamo - please provide more details about the support Israel provided Hamas that you mention. Amount of support, when it was provided etc. Thanks.

Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:01:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...


I read a book a while ago from a chap named Robert Dreyfuss, called "Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam.". My mind escapes gthe details of how much support was given, but it defintely took place after the 1967 war, whereby Israel sought to Hammas (at the time an obscure group called the Muslim Brotherhood) to forment some form of opposition to the PLO.

Here is an interview he did, which is pretty detailed. Makes for an interesting read.

Sunday, February 05, 2006 2:41:00 am  
Blogger RHRoss said...

It's sow not sew, as in reap what you sow. But a mere technicality.

Israel gave support to Hamas in the early years of its foundation so it could be a foil against the PLO. This information is easy enough to find with a quick search. Israel was trying to 'screw' Arafat and the Palestinian Authority as much as possible which is why they encouraged Hamas. But, just as the Americans created Al Qaeda (the database) by training mujahadeens to fight the Russians in Afghanistant, and they trained and supported Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and co., only to find that the 'enemy' they created to serve their own ends became their own enemy.

There's an old saying: What you give out is what you get back and this is clear proof of it.

As to Hamas speaking words of peace which run counter to some of its past policies .... in this part of the world there is what one says and what one does and they are often two entirely different things.

Israel has categorically stated there will be no Palestinian State .... which, by extension, means Israel plans to 'destroy' any hope of freedom for Palestinians.

It's hard to see how that differs from the original Hamas position of refusing to countenance an Israeli State. Would someone like to explain how it does?

Just as Israel says this and will of course be ultimately forced to do other, so too can Hamas change its mind and its position.

Let's not forget too that when the Saudis got general Arab agreement to recognise Israel and establish peaceful relations Israel, Sharon, ignored it. That was because the one condition was that Israel ended the occupation.

Most people of reason would accept that those living under occupation have a reason to fight .... that means the Palestinians.

Few people believe that those who occupy have a reason to fight to maintain it.... that means Israel has no moral ground upon which to stand when criticising the Palestinians for their violence, nor, in fact their rage toward the occupiers.

Palestine does not occupy Israel. Israel occupies Palestine. Palestine does not have the ability to destroy Israel. Israel has the capacity (although not the freedom) to destroy Palestine.

Psydoc might like to elaborate on which people living under occupation do not speak and act as the Palestinians do. The only one I can think of is Tibet although the Chinese make sure that we don't get to hear about Tibetan resistance. They simply murder them and, like Israel, 'seed' the country with their own.

Hamas should be given the chance to show what it is prepared to do.

After all, the first Prime Minister of Israel was a former terrorist guilty of violent acts of murder against civilians.

What is the difference?

Sunday, February 05, 2006 7:17:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

james, some links-some I haven't read entirley but mention a link between Israel and Hamas.
.."Given the level of control that the Israeli intelligence services such as the Shin Bet and Mossad have been able to exert over the Palestinian territories during the last 35 years of Israeli occupation, the capability to manipulate militant and violent organizations, such as those associated with Hamas, should not surprise anyone ..."

But that's about;
", according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official. "

Bottom line is, aside from the voters who rejected Fatah, who is benefitting from the Hamas election? When the usual f*ckheads rave on about Hamas and Hitler and gassing Jews...(oh let my people go..). I can just see it 5,000 blood crazed, jew hating Hamas loonies with their Kalashnikov's firing in the air driving Israel into the sea. .. and the puppet Piano player's string gets pulled ." ...renounce violence...Israel's right to exist...."

See? With Hamas we have no partner for peace. (we really want one you know)

Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:17:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Thanks for correcting me RH,

Here is another interesting articel by Justin Raimondo, that gives another explanation f the birth of Hamas.

I link to this article becasue Raimondo includes many links in his blog.

Sunday, February 05, 2006 3:32:00 pm  
Blogger JohD said...

Nobody has as yet come up with a convincing argument as to why Hamas should recognize an Israel founded upon the stolen land of Palestinians.

Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:20:00 pm  

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