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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Monday, December 26, 2005

Dissent not allowed

Israel appears to see an Australian peace activist as a threat to national security:

"An Australian woman has been detained by Israeli authorities for the past five days after refusing to leave the country."

Shiri Lock had been planning to attend a peace conference in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, but was denied entry into Israel.

"'Well, Shiri and her friends are actually peace activists and they have come to a non-violent conference in Bethlehem, and she was denied entry under the reason that she presents a security threat,' [her lawyer] said."

"'We believe that peace activists do not represent any security threat or other threat to the state and that's why we decided to appeal.'"

Israel is notoriously frightened of dissent within its own borders, such is the fragility of its democracy.

27 Comments:

Blogger Comical_Ali said...

I guess Israel is as much of a democracy as Australia which recently deported Scott parkin. Either that, or both are nasty police states.

In any case, I wonder how any form of dissent would be tolerated in a "Palestinian" state which you ever so passionatly advocate for in place of Israel? After all, We can already see how much tolerance for any form of dissent works under Palestinian autonomy...

Monday, December 26, 2005 6:52:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Monday, December 26, 2005 7:32:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

The attempt to discuss peace is a threat to Israeli national security? Hmmm.

Monday, December 26, 2005 7:33:00 pm  
Blogger Mannie said...

Oh, yes, and that great democracy has locked up Mordechai Vanunu yet again for having contact with the outside world - and he is a threat to Israeli security??

Monday, December 26, 2005 10:08:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:28:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Mannie said...
Oh, yes, and that great democracy has locked up Mordechai Vanunu yet again

Yeah - what IS the deal with that? It makes no sense whatsoever.

In the interview I saw this year sometime on Lateline, the Israeli defence minister wasn't able to give a single coherent reason. He just kept saying over and over again that Vanunu was a potential threat.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:29:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Whether or not it makes sense is up to the Israeli government, which doesn't care about the reasoning powers of an antisemite.

As most of these phony activists seem more concerned with covering for palestinian terrorism than peace, it is not unreasonable for Israel to boot out known hate mongers.

Unlike the palestinians, the Israel does not kill traitors.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:45:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

"Whether or not it makes sense is up to the Israeli government"

Well that may be so, but due process and guilt are usualyl associated with democracy and human rights.

Dictaorships are usually associated with leaderships who don;t have to goive a reaosn for what they do.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:06:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Vananu was tried and found guilty. Part of his sentence has to do with no contact of foreign elements.

Israel doesn't have to give you a reason you are willing to accept.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:14:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

I;m not dusputing that Ibraham. When it comes to gagging people, most Western governments have dipped their toe into the water.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:06:00 am  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

Antony

Clearly you know NOTHING about Israel if you think it is "notoriously" scared of dissent. Might I suggest you read up on its Supreme Court. You should also dip into Ha'aretz from time to time. Also take a gander at the writings of Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev, Uri Avnery, Israel Shahak, Avi Shlaim, Baruch Kimmerling, and Gideon Levy. I know there are dozens more names, but these are all people whose work I have read.

As you are fond of pointing out, what would I know? After all I have never even visited Israel. So why is it that I am aware of the extremely robust exchange of views, especially "dissenting" views (whatever "dissenting" means in Loewenstein-land) and you seem not to be?

Again, I beg you to send me advance copies of your book, so that I might help you making an absolute boob of yourself.

I hope this helps.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:00:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:21:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
Israel doesn't have to give you a reason you are willing to accept.

Sure, I can live with "a reason I wouldn't be willing to accept", but why have they offered NO reason at all, Ibby?

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:23:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

They gave their reason and the voters accept the reason. You don't? Who cares?

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:39:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Good point. Maybe Sharon shoudl take that advice and stop leaning on the Palestinians for electing Hamas then, don't you agree?

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:32:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I say let them elect hamas, and suffer the consequences.

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:05:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
They gave their reason and the voters accept the reason.

So what is the reason?

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:24:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I guess you'll have to ask them. Maybe they give a shit about an antisemite's concerns.

Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:23:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
I guess you'll have to ask them.

I take it from this that you have no idea Ibby - in which case, why did you respond in the first place?

Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:05:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You'll take it that you have to ask them. Maybe they give a shit about an antisemite's concerns.

Friday, December 30, 2005 12:10:00 am  
Blogger Mannie said...

Funny, really, that if Vanunu was such a threat to Israeli security, he would have been sentenced to life imprisonment, not "just" 18 years. However, on his release, if dissent was no threat to Israel, and we have had Pappe, Avnery, Segev and others quoted as voices of dissent in this famous "democracy", why has Vanunu been re-arrested?
Is this democracy at work, or is this another aspect of a police state such as Australia is about to become with the new anti-terrorism laws?

Friday, December 30, 2005 3:35:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Vanunu has been sentanced and given conditions upon his release, all conditions which could be legally imposed.

He has every right to go back to court and legally challange those conditions. He doesn't have the right to violate them.

That's how it works. Don't like it? Tough. Go there, form a political party, run and get elected and form a new government and change the laws.

Of course, you could try a military take over and become the tyrant you desire to be.

Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:08:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
That's how it works. Don't like it? Tough.

You really have moved beyond that ever-so troublesome "thinking" stage of human evolution, haven't you Ibby?

The question is why bother with the conditions. There would appear to be no legally rational reason for them. That's the puzzle. That's what's being asked about.

I know you think asking questions is a dangerous and anti-semitic thing to do (which is probably why you don't do it), but in fact, on the contrary, it is one of the pillars of human civilisation. Come! Join us in civilisation. The water is nice and warm.

Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:24:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Perhaps our noted antisemite will have to ask the Israeli government.

Likely they will laugh in his face as we do.

Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:10:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"Likely they will laugh in his face as we do."

Why do you persist with the plural? Do you think you're royalty or do you believe the voices in your head are real people?

Sunday, January 01, 2006 11:36:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Why would an antisemite ask questions that no one will answer? Doesn't he realize that antisemites are the assholes of earth, and few will talk to them?


Perhaps he is a dense as he is stupid?

Monday, January 02, 2006 9:17:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"Why would an antisemite..."

Oh Ibby. The only person I pick on is you. Do you believe you are The Jewish People? My! What magnificent delusions of grandeur. Shabtai Zvi would be so proud. (Look him up later.)

Monday, January 02, 2006 1:43:00 pm  

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