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Friday, November 11, 2005

Stopping hate?

This is an intriguing insight into the mind of one of America's foremost Zionist leaders, the Anti-Defamation League's Abe Foxman. These reflections are from a young, Jewish American:

"The other day I was invited to participate in an hour-long discussion with Abraham Foxman from the ADL. The setting was pretty intimate - about 20 students attended - and I must say I was not impressed by the guy who leads one of the most important Jewish and "anti-Hate" organizations in the world.

"Foxman brought up the example of divestment to show that the unique negative attention Israel receives is an indication of anti-Semitism. It wouldn't be anti-Semitic, he argued, if a group calling for divestment listed Israel among many other countries who perpetuate much worse war crimes. Such a list wouldn't be accurate according to him (Israel - commtting war crimes?! Has ve'halila!), but since it didn't single out Israel it wouldn't be anti-Semitic.

"I challenged this view by bringing up the following possibility: What if Students for a Free Tibet came out with a divestment campaign against China? Would singling out China be derived from a hatred for the Chinese people?

"At this point Abe Foxman lost it, cut me off and went on and on about two thousand years of prosecution and anti-Semitism. How dare I compare a recent historical conflict to such deep-seated hatred that goes back so far?! It seems then, that his original argument collapsed: At first he tried to use the "singling out" argument to prove anti-Semitism. Then, he was forced to assume anti-Semitism in order to argue that one case of "singling out" is different than another."

Read the whole thing. Foxman was "hysterical and childish" (sounds like most leading Zionist leaders.) He "played the Holocaust card."

Zionist leaders can no longer ignore the problems with the Israeli state. Smearing all critics as anti-Semites may play well at the American Enterprise Institute, but less and less people simply accept the "might is right" ideology anymore.

Israel is a brutal occupier. Any questions?

(Courtesy of Gorilla in the Room)

41 Comments:

Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

"Zionist leaders can no longer ignore the problems with the Israeli state. Smearing all critics as anti-Semites may play well at the American Enterprise Institute, but less and less people simply accept the "might is right" ideology anymore."

Thanks, Ant.

Friday, November 11, 2005 7:14:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

We are just smearing you as an antisemite. No reasonable standard bearer of any zionist group "Smear(s)all critics as anti-Semites" But that is one of the many rally cries of a true antisemite such as yourself.

While true criticism of Israeli policy is not ignored, dirt and antony are ignored with impunity.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:16:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ahhh, I knew it Ibrahamav, you are indeed Foxman's illegitimate love child.

Foxman is a lunatic and going off the deepend entirely. I'm sure those who listen to him do so for the entertainment factor.

The ADL is also a complete farce. Imagine an interest called the Anti Defamatiuon legaue that get's successfully sued repatedly for defamign individuals. If Orwell had ever written a comedy, the ADL would provide plenty fo grist for sure.

In this Haaretz article (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643703.html), he "warned of increasing efforts by Christian rightists to "Christianize America" - a well-known and much-spoken-of phenomenon. Many are warning of it in the name of liberal values, in the name of the American constitutional heritage, in the name of political objectives."

Wow, imagine that? A religion being the driving force behind the the ideals and identity of an entire country. Who woudl think sucha thing was possible?

Saturday, November 12, 2005 1:39:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Addamo considers all fights against antisemitism as racism in disguise.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:12:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Did I forget to mention that ibraham he reads minds too? What is this, prempting antisemitism?

Do you really want a guy like Foxman being the self appointed spokesman against anti-emitism? This man has highjacked the cause for his own benefit, and judging by the ADL's abismal record, he is failing miserably. He is an extremist in every sense of the word.

I am no fan of the evangelical christians in the US, but how does Foxman hold a straight face while castigating the US for allowing the Christianization of America? I can't wait to hear what Pat Robertson has to say about this.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:10:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Just Addamo's antisemitic mind. Very little in there. Very easy to read.

Face it Addamo, you've been pegged.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:53:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Owwwwww aaaaaalright you got me Ibrahamav. You're just toooo clever for me you clever psychic you.

Do also you read palms and tea leaves? Am I gonna be rich and get to make babies with Angelina Jolie?

Saturday, November 12, 2005 5:37:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You are going to die an antisemite. I just can't see the date. That is all that can be seen in your future. Sorry, but it's your own fault.

Perhaps if you had gotten a better education, things would have turned out differently.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:46:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

I knew my engineering degree with honors, and my post graduate degree in nuclear engineering, and then my post graduate diploma in 3D animation were all a waste of time. Why did I ever listen to my parents??

What are your qualifications ibraham, if you don't mind me asking?

BTW. If you do ever get to meet Abe, tell him no hard feelings OK?

Saturday, November 12, 2005 7:55:00 am  
Blogger kei & yuri said...

No reasonable standard bearer of any Zionist group "smears all critics as anti-Semites."

Ummm... are any Zionist standard-bearers reasonable? Jabotinsky maybe, but then his honesty was honestly racist.
The thing that first got our attention about Zionism was the aggressive mendacity and violent hostility they showed to all potential critics and competitors, flooded mailboxes with death threats and drowning-out debates with screaming. And of course a lot of Zionists confronted directly about this behavior cannot imagine how we have been hallucinating such things, unless of course we're just telling lies about Jews to, as is apparently the goal of the inexplicably frustrated 99% of the world, bring back the Holocaust. There are many comparisons in American politics: Nixonfans dismissed critics as haters, not of Nixon but of America, and distributed a bumper sticker stating "America: love it or leave it." It is unnecessary to point out that certain German extremists explained away insufficient enthusiasm for their big plans as anti-Germanism fostered by immigrant populations.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:55:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Holy crap, you just decribed ibraham to a T. prepare yourself for the barrage or bile comming your way.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:24:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Yes addamo, your education was a waste of time. I understand many nazis, like yourself, had advance degrees.

And Buckling is inversely proportional to what?

kei and yuri, you haven't made a point. But please try again, you were almost there.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:32:00 pm  
Blogger Danny Yee said...

I have some friends/acquaintances who sound just like ibrahamov. I don't know whether they realise just how much harm they do their cause - or their claimed cause - with their aggression, or whether they just don't care.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:33:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

So you have some friends who are smarter than you. Big deal. You shouldn't brag about it. Some people will be upset because you're trying to prove how good you are because of your friends.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:47:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Theory:

Ibrahamav is in fact a neo-Nazi who is attempting to make Zionists look like insane racist psychos so as to undermine any sympathy for Israel. It is certainly the most plausible explanation for Ibrahamav's behaviour. Yes, that's it: Ibrahamav is a neo-Nazi ... either that or an Islamo-fascist.

The proof, of course, will be Ibrahamav's denial of this fact.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 11:30:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

As with most of Eddie's theories, this too holds no water.

But I do not deny eddie's antisemitic tendencies.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 3:57:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
As with most of Eddie's theories, this too holds no water.

A-HA! Proof positive that Ibrahamav is in fact a neo-Nazi! Condemned out of his own mouth.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:37:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

That's a novel idea, but it may have legs. By accusing everyone of antisemitism, it makes no one an anti semite.

Ibraham could in fact be a neo-Nazi's best ally.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:42:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Actually, addamo and eddie, the tag team idiots of the blogs, are the neo-nazi's best friend.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:42:00 am  
Blogger leftvegdrunk said...

Ibrahamav is engaging in what Brent Howard calls the "crude slander of the left", and is only getting worse. I reckon it must be time to say, Fuck off, you tit. After all, we know this kind of shit would result in "banning" elsewhere. If Ibrahamav won't piss off or shut up, can we ignore him/her instead? This is tiresome.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 12:01:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

No we shoudl let Ibraham stay. Where else would he and his imaginary friends go

Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:25:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

I was just re-reading Foxman's statements.

When the US singles out Cuba for it's human rights record, no one expects that China, Saudi Arabia etc. be mentioned in the same breath.

This is indeed highlighted in the said article.

So in a sense, Foxman's comments just confuse matters. Since he took over the reigns at the ADL, it seems that Foxman has been forever interpreting and redefining anti-semitism. One gets the sense that Foxman and his fellow travelers, are deliberately maintaining the ambiguity over the concept of anti-semitism.

When one looks at racism, it is something that is universally well understood, but anti-semitism is still open to interpretation, and the arbiters are raraly impartial. Foxman presents a distraction to the real understanding of anti-semitism.

Obviously the fuzzier the definition, the broader the brush with which to tarnish reputations and therefore, stifle debate.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:58:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Foxman deliberately wants to continue re-defining anti-Semitism because it suits his political aims. True anti-Semitism is vile and should be condemned in the strongest possible way. Much of what Foxman calls anti-Semitism, is, er, a little different.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 5:06:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Antisemitism has not been redifined. But the efforts of antisemites, such as yourself, to shift the dialogue slightly, as an attempt to promote antisemitism with out actually being accused of it, has not gone unnoticed.

Your main complaint appears to be being pissed that your are caught so often.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:24:00 pm  
Blogger ConcernedCatholic said...

Foxman isn't really a Zionist, though... just an idiot... he uses race in much the same way that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do... as a tool to get political advantage... Zionists, as corrupt as they may be, at least have the dubious virtue of being honest about what they believe.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:44:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Very well put ConcernedCatholic. Foxman is using his position in the most cynical of ways, and uses the antisemitic charge as a politcal weapon.

Ibraham, in spite of the plain evidence before your eyes (i.e. these quotes) you somehow manage to ignore it. Foxman is making absurd arguments and being found wanting when his statements are challenged. Honestly, do you really want this man championing your values? Whether he is Jwesish, Israeli or Zionist ir not the issue here.

Or is criticism of him in itlself anti-semitic?

Monday, November 14, 2005 3:31:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Addamo, you have neither placed evidence nor meaningful quotes in front of anyones eyes. Therefore, there is no need to comment on your antisemitic bent.

Monday, November 14, 2005 10:28:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham, the link itself provides the quotes. The question is pretty straightforward.

You appear to be sidestepping the argument. Is Abe Foxman inyour opinion, a worthy public face of a defender against anti-semitism.

And, as a favor to the others on this list, try writing one post without accusing someone of being an anti-semite.

Monday, November 14, 2005 1:09:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

The link? Provide the quotes. Until then, you have no argument.

Do you favors? Do an antisemite favors? Please. Take dirt's suggestion to heart. He meant it for you.

Monday, November 14, 2005 2:20:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Irbraham. Your like a petulant, spoiled little child devoid of any social accumen, who can't stand to lose an ergument. Kei & Yuri profile described you perfectly. In everyone's reality but your's, Dirts suggestion was directoed at you.

Quoting from Dirt: "Ibrahamav is engaging in what Brent Howard calls the "crude slander of the left", and is only getting worse. I reckon it must be time to say, Fuck off, you tit."

As for the topinc in question, you are pretending to be ignorant of the issue becasue you are unable to defend stupidity in it's purest form.

Here is the link

http://gorillaintheroom.blogspot.com/2005/11/evening-with-abe-foxman.html

The author of the article points out that Abe Foxman of the ADL, demands a "liberal" secular American state, but works for a hard line sectarian Israeli state.

That is hipocrisy in anyone's language.

Abe Foxman said: "It wouldn't be anti-Semitic, if a group calling for divestment listed Israel among many other countries who perpetuate much worse war crimes."

Such a list wouldn't be accurate according to him (Israel - commiting war crimes?! Has ve'halila!), but it since it didn't single out Israel it wouldn't be anti-Semitic.

The author challenged Foxman with this quesrion: "What if Students for a Free Tibet came out with a divestment campaign against China? Would singling out China be derived from a hatred for the Chinese people?"

Foxman's response to this was a carbon copy of those utterered by someoen we know: "At first he tried to use the "singling out" argument to prove anti-Semitism. Then, he was forced to assume anti-Semitism in order to argue that one case of "singling out" as different than another."

You are proving to be a wonderful Foxman apprentice Ibraham.

Monday, November 14, 2005 2:38:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

All you have provided is someones blog statement. No quotes from Foxman. Try again. Perhaps, like a blind pig, you'll acrtually stumble upon some acorn as you plow through acres of antisemitic shit looking for one.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:18:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

You're such a sore loser Ibraham. Learn some humilty.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:39:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

When Addamo loses the argument (especially when his nose is rubbed in the mess) he resorts to nonsense.

Please provide some accurate quotes for your next argument, not some pretend shit from someone elses blog.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:20:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Nice try mate.

So you are asserting that these quotes are fraudulent or innacurate?

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:19:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Come to think of it, let me rephrase the question to you Ibraham.

Do you support Foxman's logic as displayed in that article?

And this time, try anwering the question, rather than avoiding it by hiding behind another one of you sppiteful insults.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:24:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Fraudulent, innacurate? Non-supplied. There were no quotes provided, only the bloggers memory of somthing he thought he heard.

That is not a quote. There was no display to discuss.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:33:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

What is it with you? You are so afraid to answer any question posed to you?

Why sre you so unwilling to share your convictions and beliefs, or do you find it safer to just sit back and condemn other people's opinions?

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:14:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

What question? A hypothetical? That is not a question.

There is something wrong with sitting back and exposing your antisemitism? Other than the fact that you'd like to keep your antisemitic bent hidden.

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:24:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

No not at all. If you can prove that I am an antismite, then be my guest.

Of couirse, proof doe snot constitute merely repeating it over and over again.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:34:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

It can be proved. But why bother?

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:06:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Here's a tidbit:
Addamo_01 said...
Tell me ibraham, are those "antisemitic one-sided resolution" printed on different letter-head to the other UN resolutions?

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:28:00 AM

The failure to recognize what even the UN has stated to be one sided and antisemitic resolutions is a clear sign of an antisemitic bent and a clear path toward being labeled an antisemite.

And there is so much more.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:42:00 pm  

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