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Friday, December 02, 2005

The Islamic question


"...From the perspective of Islamists, a dangerous turn of events is taking place in Iraq. Increasingly, Muslims are fighting Muslims rather than a foreign occupation, and this can only lead to a further dilution of Islamic strength at a time when Islam is seen to be under attack from the outside."

14 Comments:

Blogger Shabadoo said...

Eh...look at the Algerian Civil War, the Iran-Iraq War, the whole Taliban deal in Afghanistan, etc etc etc...Muslims have no trouble at all slaughtering each other over issues of doctrinal purity, etc; we're taking a bit more notice now that Westerners are in the fray.

Friday, December 02, 2005 5:31:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Yes, this seems like old news.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:57:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

Shabadoo said...

" Eh...look at the Algerian Civil War, the Iran-Iraq War, the whole Taliban deal in Afghanistan, etc etc etc...Muslims have no trouble at all slaughtering each other over issues of doctrinal purity, etc; we're taking a bit more notice now that Westerners are in the fray. "

Not sure how you came up with "doctrinal purity" to define your list of conflicts. You mean Saddam invaded Iran because of doctrinal differences with the Shias?

Saturday, December 03, 2005 11:49:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

...or do you mean we're paying attention now because they are kicking our arse?

Saturday, December 03, 2005 11:50:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Sunnis are slaughtering Shi'ites in the attempt to regain control. Saddam had an easier time killing Iranians without much arab interference because the iranians are shi'ite.

We pay attention because they are killing many westerners, including those who are actually trying to help them with nothing expected in return.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:20:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Nothing expected in return? Whom are you referring to Ibraham? Surely the US, who are not only building 4 permanent military bases, but already making plans on how to spend $200 billion of Iraqi oil profits?

One of Saddam's greatest enemires, Allwai mstated this week that the situation is Iraq is a bad as it ever was under Saddam. How coudl you expect gratitude from the Iraqi's, other than Chalabi, who's pocket has been subsatianlly lined by the whole enterprise.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:09:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Speaking of red cross, christian charities, and the like. NGO's.

But the original post deals with the fact that Inter-Islamic violence appears to be very common. Let's stick to arabs screwing arabs on this thread. there are enough threads for you to stick it to the Americans. Many who believe 'let us die to make men free'.

Yes, there are profiteers in every human activity.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:07:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Fair comment Ibraham.

I accept that those bodies have provided constructively. Mind you, there is evidence of NGO's being used to implement foreign policy goals, while giving those of influential plausible deniability e.g. The Ukraine.

The inter-Islamic violence is thoroughly disheartening.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:45:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

But apparently normal for the region and culture. Which is why so many state that is it a ridiculous assumption that democracy will take root.

Saturday, December 03, 2005 3:16:00 pm  
Blogger boredinHK said...

addamo-1 , soory , have to chuckle at that one - the history of Islam from the 2nd Caliph has been interfractional conflict and brutal attacks on each other to get control of the means of political and religious influence.

Boy ,we are all alike!

Saturday, December 03, 2005 4:55:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

boredinHK said...
"addamo-1 , soory , have to chuckle at that one - the history of Islam from the 2nd Caliph has been interfractional conflict and brutal attacks on each other to get control of the means of political and religious influence."

As long as you're only attributing this to the long history (and long remembered history as a basis for future conflict) of multifaceted Middle Eastern politics and not to 'Islam as a religion' in general - then sure, this is not utterly and completely false ... just embarrassingly ameraturish hack-work "historical analysis" built on a dumb reductionism we haven't seen since the diamat of Soviet "philosophy". What else can one call a 29-word account of approximately 14 centuries of history?

Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:24:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Ignorance?

Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:29:00 pm  
Blogger boredinHK said...

Thanks Edward.
the idea was that all people fight - for plenty of different causes and so we do have similarities even against what our prejudices would like to make us believe.
The religion of Islam has had plenty of conflict in it's history.
The rest of your point will need to be explained as I'm just a normal person , not a pompous elitist.
One weird problem of this blog is that many of the contributors are like a bunch of learned hermits or mountain top gurus and ordinary , even curious people who want to join are subjected to this kind of arrogant retort. Try communicating and explaining and I'm happy to learn .
So often you assume contributors have a predetermined position they are trying to defend. In this case my reply to addamo-1 was about the understanding I have that schools of thought contend for influence in Islam ande the conflicts have been violent.
You can get very worked up about that ?

Monday, December 05, 2005 2:15:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

I don't think you have any reason to feel inadequate in any way Borderlink. Your posts have always been thoughtful and well informed. And I took no exception to your remark either as I agree with your comment.

Monday, December 05, 2005 2:34:00 pm  

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