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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Wednesday, November 16, 2005

Would you like gravy with that?

Torture arrives in American lounge-rooms:

"Two former Iraqi detainees tell ABC News in an exclusive interview that they were repeatedly tortured by U.S. forces seeking information about Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction.

"Thahee Sabbar and Sherzad Khalid are two of eight men who, with help from the American Civil Liberties Union and the group Human Rights First, are suing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The men claim they were tortured for months, in violation of the U.S. Constitution and international law.

"Khalid told ABC News that U.S. soldiers at one point threatened him with live lions.

'They took us to a cage - an animal cage that had lions in it within the Republican Palace,' he said. 'And they threatened us that if we did not confess, they would put us inside the cage with the lions in it. It scared me a lot when they got me close to the cage, and they threatened me. And they opened the door and they threatened that if I did not confess, that they were going to throw me inside the cage. And as the lion was coming closer, they would pull me back out and shut the door, and tell me, 'We will give you one more chance to confess.' And I would say, 'Confess to what?''

15 Comments:

Blogger Shabadoo said...

Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goodfellas when they go down to Florida to collect a debt and threaten to throw a guy to the lions at the zoo?

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:38:00 am  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

That's your empire in action, spreading freedom and democracy everywhere it goes.
Blowback has a new name.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:42:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Funny how Antony believes anything that gives the USA a bad name.

It is only antisemitism when you believe anything that gives Israel a bad name.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 12:30:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

These practices has been pretty much confirmed by former members of the US military.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:43:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Pretty much? What does that mean?
Either it has been proven true or not.

So far it has not been proven true.

So your pretty much fibbing?

We know what Khalid's reason to lie could be. What's yours?

Anybody?

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:37:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Proof, always necessaru when someone disagrees wih you Ibraham. Nver required when you make a baseless suggestion, but then Khalid's just an underserving Arab right?

Here is an interview with former U.S. Army interrogator Specialist Tony Lagouranis. He talks about his own involvement with abusing detainees in Iraq and torture carried out by the Navy Seals.

Listen or read it.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/15/1632233

he speaks of how seals would toture detainees with extreme hypothermia and use a rectal thermometer to check if the detainee was dead or not. It's pretty sickening.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:04:00 pm  
Blogger EvilPundit said...

Lions, seals -- what is this, animal crackers?

You guys and your crazy stories.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:50:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Nothing about lions. mmmmm.

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:16:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

I should have been more clear that lions are hard to come by in Iraq these days, but that the toruter practices are much more widespread than we have been led to believe.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:35:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Yes, you should have made that clear. No one doubts that Navy Seals are guilty of persuading people of giving up information that they don't want to. They are trained for it.

And the usual method of determining time of death and to ensure a thermometer is not broken via rigor mortis or deliberate biting is by using it anally.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 3:43:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Firtly, torture very rarely works. As this source reveals in the intereview, most of the detainees were innocents and approximately 10 of the 300 people he enterrogated had any useful information to give.

According to these revelations, the anal probe was to measure how far to take the torture without killing the detainee. Why would you need to establish time of death when you are in the process of killing the suspect? It's not like the Seals are issuing death certificates to the families of the deceased in order to cash in on the life insurance now is it?

Furthermore, the way to determine time of death is to measure the temperature of the liver.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:48:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Seals do not need to be that acurate. The ass will do just fine.

This is not cool calculated torture in a prison cell with tons of time to spare.

And torture doesn't work in confessions.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:33:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

But it does work some other times. Not that I'm condoning it. But I'd be awfully tempted to torture a failed suicide bomber to get every bit of information out of him. Awfully tempted.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:39:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

I would actually agree with that.

A suicide bomber has already shown disregard for their own life, as well as the lives of others, so the huan rights issue is pretty irrelevant.

The scary bit involves how do you pre-empt these activites? To determine who is and who is not a potential suicide bomber. As Israeli intelligence has stated, it's pretty much impossible to profile them.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:14:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Now you go down the slippery slope of deciding just who has already shown disregard for their own life, as well as the lives of others.
And who determines just what that deed was.

Thursday, November 17, 2005 1:01:00 pm  

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