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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Monday, December 19, 2005

Friends with enemies

The US says it believes in democratisation, unless, of course, it involves parties it doesn't like:

"Two days after the U.S. Congress voted by a large majority (397 to 17) to threaten the Palestinian Authority with withholding aid if it includes Hamas in the next government, U.S. officials pressured the European donor nations to transfer $60 million immediately to the PA to pay the salaries of its officials and security apparatus. The money had been withheld in protest over PA salary hikes and unimplemented administrative reforms.

"Last week in London at a meeting of the donor countries, the U.S. urged the Europeans to unfreeze the funds out of concern that the delay would hurt Mahmoud Abbas' standing in the upcoming elections and weaken the position of Fatah members who are close to the leadership."

Hamas will be a major player after the end of January Palestinian elections. Israel, the US and the world have to accept this and adapt.

30 Comments:

Blogger neoleftychick said...

Indeed. We all support Israel "adapting" as aggressively as it needs to. Dealing with these pigs must be awful.

Monday, December 19, 2005 5:43:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

The irony is that Israel ignored the PLO for obvious reasons. (WE HAVE NO PARTNER FOR PEACE!!!!!) Oh Boy.
In fact encouraged the establishement of Hamas to derail the PLO. Regional Arab states sort of supported but not really the secular socialist PLO. Over the years they have stagnated, not able to get political results from Israel yet as the recognised representatives have almost satisfied themselves with the fat of a regular salary but nothing else. The result? Hamas. You reap what you sow - a good Judeo-Christian saying.

Monday, December 19, 2005 6:39:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

Breaking news - Sharon is lucid in hospital after "stroke".

(Small voices shouting ..........die you cocks*cking motherf*cker...........)

Monday, December 19, 2005 7:39:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

Yes well Sharon is a worry. Tough titties if he carks it. This will open the way for Netanyahoo or some REAL tough nut to bitchslap the terrorists out of the West Bank and back where they belong beyond the Jordan River and the Golan Heights.

It has become clear that Israel's security can only be achieved by taking ALL the land it was supposed to get under the British Mandate.

The time for tiddledeewinks is over.

Monday, December 19, 2005 8:52:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Netanyahoo? That pussycat. What they need is a REAL, REAL tough nut who is more in line with your "final solution" to the world's problems - someone like Baruch Marzel.

Monday, December 19, 2005 9:08:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

edward

Like the Final Solution the Towelheads had in mind for the Jews when they fought for the Nazis in WW2?

The Towelheads are too dopey and back-biting to organise a root in a harem. They couldn't find a flea in a camel. Poor dears.

Monday, December 19, 2005 9:19:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

In orther words Neo, they are no threat to Israeli security, and can be left to their won devices?

Sounds like a plan Neo. Or was that a brain fart where logic inadvertently slipped out?

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:35:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Addamo_01 said...
"In other words Neo, they are no threat to Israeli security, and can be left to their own devices?"

Touche!

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:26:00 am  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

My dear little anti-semitic Terrorist Lovers

They most certainly CAN be left to their own devices, but not on land that is rightfully Israels.

The dopey fetid Towelheads can carry on their Arabcide in the lands of their dopey cousins; Jordan and Syria.

Imagine the economic boon to the entire region if the far genetically superior Jews applied their technology and brains to the sand and rocks of Judea and Samaria!

I hope this helps.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:44:00 am  
Blogger anthony said...

Neolefty's deplorable rants aside- letting Hamas run (i.e., bully Palestinians into voting for them in a sham election) is Bullshit. You seriously can't see that?

I'll admit just about every 'political party' in the ME thinks the protocols of the elders is a real document, wants to destroy Israel, and take the fight to overseas Jews- but the international community has a degree of influence over the PA- it doesnt have to allow this like it does with every other Muslim state.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:06:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Anthony,

Sometimes we need examples like Neo to make us realise that while we we are able to disagree, we can still share in the common value fo the sanctity of human life and human rights.

In spite of our criticiams, I trust that you accept that I, along with others on this forum all supoprt Israel's right to enjoy it's sovereignty in peace.

I applaud you for having the backbone to disavow yourself from someone who pretends to represent your values.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:33:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Sorry, but it doesn't appear that you and your fellow traveler, eddie, actually have value for the sanctity of human life and human rights. Nice try at the attempted fake.

The US has every right to with hold aid from what they consider a terrorist government. A government run by hamas will be the same as any ba'athist or Irani terror organization.

But the enemy of my enemy, is not always my friend. But you remain the enemy.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:01:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Come on Ibraham, don't be like that. What get's up your nose about Eddie and myself is that we despise all violence and human rights abuses. Our ideological net tends to include ineterests you support, but are often to ashamed to admit.

And trust me, if I were your enemy, your world would be a pretty calm place. I have never endorese violence of any kind, hurt anyone, marginalised anyone, and nor do I stand for it.

Funny you should say that the "US has every right to withhold aid from what they consider a terrorist government." Ironically, they tend to also apply this in the reverse.

That's what they did with the mujahadeen in Afghanistan, the death squads in Al Salvador, the death squads in Iraq, and the Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK) who are trying to stir up shit inside Iran. Rumm yeven spoke of the Salvador option for Iraq ealier this year, before hsi bosses told his to shut up about it.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:54:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

No, you don't. You only despise what you believe and invent to be Israel, ie Jewish, violence and human rights abuses.

Not all of my enemies are competent. You and eddie are among that group.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:12:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

I don't invent anything Ibraham. It's one thing to criticise I my sources, but I do not invent them. That's why I provide links where I can.

So Ibraham, do you believe Israeli violence and human rights abuses are fignments of my imagination, or do you agree they exist? I never make refrences to Jews when speaking of the actiposn of Israel.

And seriously Ibraham, do you keep lists of your enemies?

BTW. I am sorry you think of me as your enemy. In spite of our heated exchanges, I certainly don't consider you mine.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:31:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Most trying to hide their antisemitic agendas say israeli and zionist and neo-can when they actually mean Jew.

Are there instances of israeli violence and human rights abuses as there are in every single western democracy? Yes. Of course.

What you do and do not consider, on a personal basis, is not of interest to me. Keep a list? Hardly.

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 3:19:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
No, you don't. You only despise what you believe and invent to be Israel, ie Jewish, violence and human rights abuses.

1. I don't despise what I believe ... and I'm going to go out on a very short limb here and say that neither does Addamo_01. If I despise a proposition because it is false, then I don't believe it. If I despise an imperative or value-judgement because it is evil, then I reject it. My mind works in accordance with these relatively simple rules. Addamo_01 appears to do the same. It makes for more consistent lines of thought. You should try it sometime.

2. I don't "invent" Israeli government violence, or Palestinian violence. I just read about it in Israeli newspapers.

3. I know you think that "most" people who criticise harmful Israeli and Zionist policies are just covering their "antisemitic agendas", but in my case, that is not true. I would love for there never to be another Jewish death inside Israel at the hands of suicide bombers. I would also love for there never to be another Palestianian death inside the Occupied Territories at the hands of the IDF and settlers. I think the best way to ensure this in the long run is to let the Palestinians be free. How can I be anti-semitic AND sincerely pray for no more Jewish deaths?

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:49:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

The average palestinian is free to go where ever he wants in the world, except Israel. And until Palestinian terrorism ceases, thats the way it's going to stay.

I am not here to be your analyst.

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:40:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

That's good to hear Ibraham. So does this mean you'll stop trying to analyse us?

Edward, beautifully put as always.

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:46:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
The average palestinian is free to go where ever he wants in the world, except Israel. And until Palestinian terrorism ceases, thats the way it's going to stay.

Are you saying that IF Palestinian terrorism stops, Palestinians will be free to go where-ever they want in Israel?

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:32:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I would assume once palestinians remounce terrorism there will be no different rules than there are for any other foreigners visiting Israel.

Addamo - does that stain ever wash off of your lips?

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:44:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

I dunno Ibraham. Does blood wash off?

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:23:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You're a vampire? Or have you sucked on him so long you drew blood?

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:59:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Good one.

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:35:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

...Are you saying that IF Palestinian terrorism stops, Palestinians will be free to go where-ever they want in Israel?"

Now come on, of course they mean that (wink wink). What do you think, they are not civilised people?

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:52:00 pm  
Blogger Mannie said...

"genetically superior Jews" - now where have we heard such expressions before?
The Herrenvolk were genetically superior Teutons, were they not??

Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:06:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Where did it say that? Or are you commenting about a different thread?

Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:47:00 am  
Blogger Mannie said...

Near the top of this thread, if you look back in sorrow and anger, you will see that "neo" stated something about "genetically superior Jews". She also keeps on going on about anti-semitic Jews and frankly this is a bit tiresome and not an argument.
I am a Jew, have lived as a Jew for 79 years, have experienced true anti-semitism in the countries I have lived and worked in, such as South Africa, where I was born, and which lived its apartheid years on racism, similar to nazi Germany's, also the UK and Australia, so to go on and on and on about us Jews who don't think Israel is the Jewish answer to anti-semitism gets to be somewhat nauseating in the end! Israel was of course South Africa's ally with "the bomb" and many other technical war weapons developments, and when I was in Israel in 1951 it was then, as it still is now, a completely nationalist state. So let's not glorify the Jews in Israel who also made a conscious decision when the state was being developed to use Hebrew as the language of the state as distinct from Yiddish which was the language of the poor Jews from the ghettos of eastern Europe.

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:03:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I see it. Bad choice of words to describe a seemingly gifted people.

There is no answer to antisemitism. Surely you realize that by now. There will always be the ALs and Eddies, and addamos, with their foolishness.

But recreating Israel is the best thing we have done for ourselves as a people. And all heroes have fatal flaws, Hebrew scripture teaches you that. It is only Muslim and christian thought that seeks perfection.

So what can you do? So, live and be well.

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:19:00 am  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav, you have been officially put in your place by your elders and your betters.

Next to Mannie's post, you are an embarrassment.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 1:41:00 am  

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