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Thursday, February 09, 2006

They're only Muslims, after all

Israel proves its expertise in cultural sensitivity:

"A dispute over the fate of an ancient Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem threatened Wednesday to ignite tensions in Holy City as workers removed skeletons from the site despite Muslim pleas for the work to end.

"Israeli developers and archaeologists are removing the tombs to make room for the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center to build a multi-million-dollar Museum of Tolerance, dedicated in part to promoting understanding among different religions. Muslims are incensed.

"Mufti Ikrema Sabri, the senior Islamic cleric in Jerusalem, on Wednesday demanded that the dig stop at the site which until 1948 served as the main Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem.

"'There should be a complete cessation of work on the cemetery because it is sacred for the Muslims,' Sabri told The Associated Press. The Waqf, the Muslim council in Jerusalem that Sabri oversees, was not consulted on the dig, he said. The cemetery was in use for 15 decades and friends of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad are buried there, Sabri said."

Imagine the justified outcry if a Muslim country desecrated Jewish graves?

13 Comments:

Blogger psydoc said...

We don't have to imagine Ant, where was your outrage at the desecration of Rachel's tomb? Did Jews go out and start burning Arab embassies?

What happened when Jordan occupied Jerusalem? Jewish graves were routinely desecrated. Tombstones were used to make the floor of urinals. Where was the outcry there?

Why does Ant only see Jewish wrongdoing? It is astonishing.

Thursday, February 09, 2006 5:23:00 pm  
Blogger Glenn Condell said...

When anyone points out Israel's oppressive behaviour, arrogance, ethnic cleansing or whatever, all you Likudnik anonymice can muster 'what about xx or yy'

It would be nice to see some of you, just once, preface your comparisons with an acknowledgement that what is being done by Israel is wrong. Is that too hard?

Thursday, February 09, 2006 5:35:00 pm  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

Yes.

Thursday, February 09, 2006 5:39:00 pm  
Blogger psydoc said...

One of the biggest problems in these kinds of claims is that the facts as usual are in dispute.

What is not disputed is that Jews did not go on a rampage when Jewish tombs were desecrated by Arabs.

Thursday, February 09, 2006 6:03:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

So the Arab desecration of the sites under their control was actually an attempt to humiliate the Jews?

Friday, February 10, 2006 4:30:00 am  
Blogger Roslyn Ross said...

If this cemetery is not in Arab East Jerusalem then one can't criticise the Israelis too much. There is so little land and they have to build somewhere and one can understand the logic that it's better, and easier, to build on a Moslem cemetery than a Jewish one. They have no respect for Christian cemeteries either.

If it is in Arab East Jerusalem, then one can, because this is occupied land and they have no legal right to build or destroy here. Not that that stops them.

Israel has some excellent archeologists of high integrity but it also has a policy of 'destroying' where it can, any evidence of non-Jewish habitation. Which is most of it actually. Some of it they can't because most historical sites are Roman and there is very little "jewish' archeological evidence. No doubt because the Jewish 'imprint, despite Biblical stories, was really very small.

But there does seem to be an active policy of 'removing' evidence where possible.

This is something the Christian churches have been upset about for years so the policy is not aimed at Moslems alone.

Friday, February 10, 2006 6:57:00 am  
Blogger psydoc said...

David Heidelberg: try naming them without relying on propaganda sources

Friday, February 10, 2006 7:54:00 am  
Blogger Glenn Condell said...

'the facts as usual are in dispute.'

Only by partisans like yourself. And 'as usual' is right. Facts are facts, unless Israel decides they aren't.

Fact - the IDF has in recent days shot a 9 year old girl. Is this in dispute? Can you weasel your way out of condemnation of that crime? I have 9 year old daughter and let me tell you, if anyone shot her dead I would take revenge on the people who did it. If those people were the faceless soldiers of a regime which wouldn't dream of bringing the criminals to justice, and who are to well protected to reach, then I would assault the civilian population that supported the murder (and it's coverup) of my child. Would you do the same?

The soldier that shot that girl should be explaining on national television why he did it. These atrocities are state-sanctioned if no-one pays for them.

That is the sort of state the world can do without, and it is certainly the kind of nation my nation should be condemning rather than supporting.

Defend if you can the murder of a 9 year old girl. Let's hear it Aaron, psycdoc, melanie, ibraham. And this time, leave out the finger pointing to others.. simply address this one event. After that you can chunter on til we all drop off, as usual, but before that I want to know what you think ought to happen to the soldier involved.

Friday, February 10, 2006 10:39:00 am  
Blogger psydoc said...

It is apalling that a child get killed in any circumstance. But we do not yet know the circumstances. Just as people like Glenn came to condemn the killing of Mohamed Al Dura, it took some time to actually establish that the killers were not in fact the IDF.

Similarly, when Palestinian gunmen use civilians as shields and move among civilians without identifying themselves as combattants, of course civilians will be killed. This is why it is a war crime to not identify yourself as a commbatant.

Facts are often in dispute and yes it is often the Israelis who are doing the disputing because they are subject to wild and emotive claims that are frequently untrue. Jenin is a glaring example of this.

So glenn, settled down, be reassured that israel is governed by laws and if a crime has been committed it will be fully prosecuted.

Compare this to the deliberate targetting of children by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa PFLP and the list goes on and on.

Friday, February 10, 2006 11:35:00 am  
Blogger Antony Loewenstein said...

For all the spurious claims that Israel is a democracy, wrong-does are punished etc, the facts simply don't bear this out.
This HRW report of last year (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/22/isrlpa11148.htm) explains how the military has little or no accountability. Ever.

Friday, February 10, 2006 12:56:00 pm  
Blogger James Waterton said...

Orang - how do you know your view isn't distorted?

Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:20:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

[1] "I understand Muslims hate Jews and Jews know it,.."
[2] "Also from my understanding Muslims have been trying to commit genocide on the Jewish people for hubdreds of years."

James Waterton said...
Orang - how do you know your view isn't distorted?

Re [1]: the is such an absurd, gross generalisation that it doesn't even begin to bear serious consideration.

Re [2]: First, histories written by academics who have had to survive the editorial and peer review process pretty clearly indicate that this is not true. Second, even a Bear of Little Brain can figure out that a relatively small Jewish population would have been completely desimated if the Arab (because that's what is really being referred to) had in fact wanted to "commit genocide...for hundreds of years". The Jewish communities in Arab nations were not eliminated; ipso facto there was no such desire.

[1] and [2] are distorted.

Monday, February 13, 2006 9:00:00 am  
Blogger James Waterton said...

Says you.

There is a fair degree of truth in both one and two, even though they're not the literal truth.

Your vehement denials of both are proof of your own distorted view.

Also, your simplistic deductions - blissfully lacking in historical perspective - count for very little.

Monday, February 13, 2006 10:17:00 pm  

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