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Name: Antony Loewenstein
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Friday, January 20, 2006

Compromise is possible

Haaretz, January 19:

"More than half of Israeli Jews would be willing to give up East Jerusalem's Arab neighbourhoods and effectively redivide the city as part of a genuine peace agreement, but the overwhelming majority (75 percent of those willing to make these concessions) do not believe it is possible to achieve genuine peace with the Palestinians. Only a small percentage are willing, even as part of a genuine peace agreement, to give up the Old City, the Western Wall and the Temple Mount."

53 Comments:

Blogger violet said...

If Hamas wins the elections then such opinions will be redundant, for they will refuse to disarm, do not believe in a two state solution -- every inch is to be "Palestine" and they do not recognise the 1993 Oslo accords.

Friday, January 20, 2006 11:00:00 am  
Blogger rejitex said...

The Wall Street Journal - Mar 17, 2002
Terror Advocate Dies in Accident
By James Taranto

Rachel Corrie, a 23-year-old terrorism advocate from Olympia, Wash., died in a bulldozer accident yesterday. Corrie was at fault in the accident, which occurred when she either stood or crouched in front of an Israeli Defense Forces bulldozer in Gaza.

The bulldozers were part of an IDF tunnel- and mine-clearing operation. The Rafah refugee camp borders Egypt, from which Palestinian terrorists smuggle in weapons and explosives. And according to interim peace accords, Israel has the right to operate in and secure the area.

Corrie not only backed anti-Israeli terrorism; she also hated America. An Associated Press photo shows Corrie, her face contorted with hate, burning a "mock U.S. flag" at a pro-Saddam rally last month. (Hat tip: Little Green Footballs.) Reuters reports on a "symbolic funeral" that drew some 1,000 Palestinian Arabs. One of them tells the "news" service: "We fly a U.S. flag today to show our support to all American peace lovers, those like Rachel." If she were still alive, no doubt she'd have burned the flag.

It's a shame that Rachel Corrie died the way she did. It's shameful that she lived the way she did

Friday, January 20, 2006 3:03:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

Taranto is a BIG PRICK, rejitex is a small prick.

Apologist for murder you c*cksuker.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Statement_Rachel_Corrie_031703.htm

http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=1866&CategoryId=23

Friday, January 20, 2006 6:01:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Thanks for the links Orang,

I'd be curious to see if Violet thought this was an accident seeing as "The Israeli bulldozer ran over her and then backed up, crushing her chest and skull".

I'd also be interested in whether the driver has faced any retribution, or just a slap on the wrist, seeing as he was following orders.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:41:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

The pictures do not show her with a crushed skull.

We are still trying to see if we can sue the Corrie family for the cleaning bill on the bulldozer.

By your words, it appears that you've just learned of this case of accidental suicide by a hate-monger.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:50:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Yeah sure Ibraham,

Accidental suicide happens when a bulldozer runs over someone, then reverses over the body. That's about as credible as saying the tank driver in Tianamen Square were struggling with faulty gear boxes.

I wonder if this is what the Simon Wiesenthal Centre had in mond when they honoured Murdoch with a humanitarian award.

For god's sake Ibraham. Just admit this was a blatant murder and save what particels of credibility you might have had.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:54:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Admit to fiction? But this is what antisemites demand.

It was not murder. It was a palestinian terrorist loving flea who thought she was somebody and caused her own death via stupidity.

For God's sake 01, quitting strewing addamo and grow up.

Just as your other analogies were screwed up, so is your Tianamen Square story.

Corrie wasn't worthy enough to suck that boy's...

Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:11:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Go on you sicko. Finish the sentence!!! See if you're man enough.

Any regard for humanity I credited you with was completely mistaken Ibraham. You are an extremist, hate filled lunatic.

Terrorist lover? This woman put her life on the line for what she beoievd was a humanitarian caue. Ibraham.

Are you telling me the photois are fiction? Are you telling me that running over someone's body, then reversing over the bosy agian is the fault of the victim?

That's about as logical as saying the mother and four children intended to be shot at point blank range.

This was a young woman with her whole life in front of her. Why would she commit suicide?

Your brain is scambled Ibraham. You shoudl get ot of your room and get come fresh air before it's too late.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:23:00 am  
Blogger Clumsy Birds said...

While we’re talking about photos, lets take a look at what a Palestinian mob can do when they put their mind to it.

Here, Here, Here, Here

That’s a little closer to the topic than a woman who would have apologised many a time for the Ramallah lynchings. It’s a pity she died, but it’s still upsetting to hear you compare her death to that of the Tiananmen Square massacre.

No matter how many Israelis are willing to give up their mothers for peace, there’s still another side willing to reject any offer.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:54:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Stewie,

You really want to play that game of who can find the most sickening photos, and in what abundance, perpetrated here? You're gonna lose.

And if you would take the time to clear the wax from your ears (or the sleep fro your eyes) you would have ralised I brought up Tianamen Square as an example of Ibrham's ludicrous excuss that this was an accident.

He's telling us that a coutr transcript (a court that incidently considers the orderea that the tractor driver was following to be legitimate) and evidence that this was an accident.

You don't have hit and run accident travelling at 6 miles per hour. and then you go on to say that Corrie "would have apologised many a time for the Ramallah lynchings". How do you know that? That's like saying Ben guiron would have congratulated Sharon for doing nothing to stop the Shatila and Shabra massacre.

Typical straw man arguments.

You last statement makes no sense whatsoever, Give up who's mothers? Israelis have perfected the art of framing land take overs as peace offers.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:27:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

01, I was not waiting fro credit from you. You really don't have any to spare.

The initial photos that ISM littered the internet with were so much addamo. When caught, they had to change their tune.

Many young women with their whole lives ahead of them have thrown away those lives. Spurned by a palestinian terrorist lover? Who knows and who cares? Basically there is one less hate monger in the world to act as a human shield for some bozo sending out suicide bombers.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:29:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

01 is showing more and more his agenda. Seems he is slipping out of the honest critic mode and more into eddie's sphere.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:30:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham, unlike you I find all cruelty intolerable. Not just the crulty inflicted on one side of the debate. The pictures that Sewie posted were tragic and I recall seeing footage of IDF soldiers being lynched and it was horrific. I make no appligies for such parbarity.

All you do is try to reframe the debate to suggest it is motivated by some sick agenda. Your reaction to any critisim and obvious events is to deflects criticism and reframe it to suggest it didn't relaly happen.

You behave like some mind controlled cyborg. When we had the debate abotu the IDf soldider who shot 17 rounds into the dead body of a 13 year old girl, the firstthing you did was point out that the guy was an Arab. Forget the event, just look for a way to spin it that deflects the blame from Israel. Arab or Jew, the man was acting in accoradance with IDF procedure. Thisis about Israel, not Jews and Arabs.

Your conditioning and indoctrination is pretty alarming.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:38:00 am  
Blogger Clumsy Birds said...

You really want to play that game of who can find the most sickening photos, and in what abundance, perpetrated here? You're gonna lose.

I posted the photos, because orang wanted us all to look at poor Rachel’s corpse. You can find thousands of images of dead Jews and dead Muslims- agreed. Of course, if we had an ‘image posting war’, It would be prudent to first note the number of times Palestinians have mutilated corpses for show.

And if you would take the time to clear the wax from your ears (or the sleep fro your eyes) you would have ralised I brought up Tianamen Square as an example of Ibrham's ludicrous excuss that this was an accident.

So you did.

You don't have hit and run accident travelling at 6 miles per hour. and then you go on to say that Corrie "would have apologised many a time for the Ramallah lynchings". How do you know that? That's like saying Ben guiron would have congratulated Sharon for doing nothing to stop the Shatila and Shabra massacre.

Corrie = obedient ISM trooper. ISM trooper = apologist for terror. The ISM probably sent its people a memo on the Ramallah Lynchings, explaining that it was just a nasty once off response to the Zionist occupation of Palestine- that is the Hamas definition, every square foot of Islamic land.

Israelis have perfected the art of framing land take overs as peace offers.

Still trying to convince yourself? The offer by the Barak Government was as good as the Palestinians were going to get, and it was more than their leadership deserved.

Sinai/Gaza pullout- repeat leftist line here --> eeerghhhh, Sharon….ergh, war criminal… just strengthening his bloody-criminal-biblically directed-grip on the West Bank…

Uh huh. Bedtime.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:32:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Stewie, you are kinder than i. have you noticed _01's constant assumptions based on nothing but the addamo he swims in?

By the way, pumping 17 bullets into a corpse is not IDF procedure. Unless you can produce a field manual stating such, please stop spreading such addamo around.

Your other accusations are too childish to bother with.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:14:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

The court hearing found that the IDF soldeir's conduct was in accordance with IDF procedure, which is why he was let off with little more than a slap on the wrist.

Childish is putting your hands over your ears and saying la la la I'm not listening every time evidence of Israeli brutality is exposed. For you it;s an involutanry reaction. Rather than condem brutality, your first reponse alway sattempds to justify it as somebody else's fault.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:19:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Please post a link to the court's statement that putting 17 bullets into a corpse is IDF procedure.

Until then, please keep the addamo at a minimum.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 5:03:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

Hey Stewie, we see where you spend your time babe.

I post some evidence of the Corrie murder because some RWDB pig hijacks the post with yet another dose of dribble about the woman. (wooo she burned the flag, therefore she deserves to DIE!!!!)

Then our resident Hunchback is cheering with his venom spitting in the background the sick gimp. Then you grace us with this zionist hate filled racist gore fantasy. Give you a tip, if you masturbate while gazing at the photos more than once a day, - go and see a shrink -fast.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:47:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

You posted no evidence of any murder. Interesting though that you admit she was a hate monger the same as you.

No, sadly, this poor little demented girl took her own sorry ass life.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:16:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Ibraham,

I'm sure your austism is hard to overcome, but unless you insist the tractor was operated by remote control.

No. Facts are facts and this was a cold blooded murder to get rid of an embarassment. The driver has probably become a national hero in Israel.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:00:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Yes facts are facts and you don't have them. I guess we can now say - Case closed.

You can hold your breath until your blue in the face, and we'll all be laughing at the blue-faced pile of addamo.

Give up while you still have your breath. You can't make up facts. But you can sure pile up the addamo.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:47:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

The only facts are the Corrie is dead and was killed by an Israeli tractor, driven by an Israeli contractor, on orders from Israeli authorities, crushing her.

You can throw up all the dust and distrations your like, and all biased and flawed findings from a partisan court, but none of these are facts.

Court findings are not fact. They are findings, whoch we all know are prone to manipulation.

Case closed.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:02:00 am  
Blogger violet said...

Isn't is peculiar that the IDF conducted an inquiry into the death of Corrie, when the Palestinians would have danced on the rooftops and named a street after whover did it, if it had been them?

Isn't it peculiar that people like you cannot see the difference between these two cultures? Two sets of rules. And the Palestinians, you know, those poor starving deprived victims of Israeli oppression get to have a different set of rules. They get to murder and kill and it's never their fault. Blame the Jews. Blame the Jews and then sleep easy.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:31:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Poor _01, the facts are right in his face and still he get's it wrong. The Buldozer, driven by an Israeli went right to the home that was to be destroyed. It was believed that it was covering a tunnel. Some palestinian terrorist apologist got in the way and found out that she couldn't stop a bulldozer. Her stupidity cost her her life. The Bulldozer was not aimed at her, she deliberately and unlawfully got in front of it.

She committed a crime and choose the punishment for it. It wasn't chosen for her. No Israeli put her in front of the moving bulldozer.

But that doesn't stop you from spewing bulladdamo.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:02:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

Violet,

Yes it is noticeable that mick trials are conducted for public consumption to maintain a facade of justice and democracy.

It's not very difficult to do. Palestinian extrmists are thugs, but at least they don't pretend to be anything else.

Ibraham, the tunnel argument is so lame. We hear it all the time. Most would remeber the last time the Sharon government accused UN workers of aiding terrorists and helping Hammas to load missiles into the back of vans before bombing them.

Sadly for the Israeli government, it was caught on tape and exposed what lies they are prepared to disseminate to justify their agression.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:24:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

So you lost the corrie argument and now you are trying another? How much addamo can one stand in a night?

UN Abets Jihad Terror: Mortar Attacks on Israelis from UN Safe Haven
Has the UN become an active jihadist force? From David Bedein in FrontPage, evidence that UNRWA (the United Nations Relief and Work Agency) is helping Palestinians attack Israel, a UN member state -- again:

Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman, sent a letter to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Sunday, demanding the dismissal of Peter Hansen from his position as commissioner-general of UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Work Agency), the organization that administers the Palestinian Arab refugee camps, under the premise and promise of the “right of return” to the homes and villages their ancestors left in 1948. In addition, Gillerman called for the United Nations to conduct a full investigation of UNWRA.
Reuters reports the Gillerman letter contains documentation that Hamas is using UN ambulances to smuggle arms and terrorists through the Gaza Strip.

15 months ago, the Hamas terror organization won more than 90% of the vote to run the UNRWA workers union in the UNRWA Arab refugee camps in Gaza. The salaries of UNRWA workers are paid through contributions that UNRWA receives from 38 contributing countries. The U.S. provides 30% of that budget, Canada contributes 4% of that budget, and the European countries contribute well over 55% of that budget.

In other words, the western democracies of the world pay the salaries of the Hamas terrorists on the payroll of UNRWA.


Read it all.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:41:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

So what you are saying is that the Israeli Abmbassador is just repeating the same officail Israeli propaghanda they always have. So what's new?

Maybe I should quote something from Arafat and present that as fact. It would hold just as much credibility.

And really Ibraham, quoting from the web site of David Horowitz. The same man who insist that all the anti-war demonstrators in Washington were not protestiong he war, but really chanting Pro Zarqawi slogans - even though he is the only man in America who heard it?

That's 2-0 my way Ibraham. Are you going to concede that you are being outsmarted and outclassed?

Mind you , it is refreshing to see you actually providing sources for your rants.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:54:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Seeing as you are now 0-2, what now little man?

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:07:00 pm  
Blogger Clumsy Birds said...

Oh, yes- Ibrahamav, stop quoting from Horowitz. His qualifications are clearly in question. Pffffftttt.

Orang- I have no idea what you are on about, but I always enjoy it.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:08:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

I think stewie would hold the two as the fools they are. One step above you though.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:35:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Stewie,

Do his qualifications prevent the guy from making baseless and histerical rants? The guy is one step away from a seizure half the time.

Even right wingers cough under thei breaht when mentioning that maniac

BTW. That list you sent was an impressive list of works. No mention of actually qualifications mind you. Do I take it you woudl therefore hold Filkenstein and Chomsky in high regard?

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:35:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Let's try that again:

I think stewie would hold the two as the fools they are. One step above you though.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:36:00 pm  
Blogger Wombat said...

Fools with impressive qualifications of courser.

Fools who happen to be right most of the time.

Better than a fanatic who wants to see his alleged enemies silenced, shut down, and jailed. That of course is the real intent of someone who labels his political opponents "pro-Al Qaeda."

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:54:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Amazing how they fail to recognize truth when they have such impressive credentials. Seems as if they are adamant about holding views that are like swiss cheese. Nothing to do with facts, just feelings.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:24:00 pm  
Blogger orang said...

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."

Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

Not many people know but before Golda got into politics she was a standup comedienne. She lost her gig to Eitan.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

Waaaahaaaaa!!! Like drugged cockroaches in a bottle" Waaahaaa!!!

Now I see where the hunchback gets his sense of humour.

Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:27:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Now I see why your comments are such a joke. You have absolutely no knowledge of the situation, just a link to the material that _01 and eddie tap into. How simian of you.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:39:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

By the way, please show the ORIGINAL source for the Eitan quote. It is not in the NY Times.

You might want to reveal the site where you did get the quote.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:43:00 am  
Blogger violet said...

orang's cut and paste came from this dodgy site.

It looks like a suspect site with a lot of suspect quotes.

Probably more balderdash and bullcrap from someone who can't post a sentence here without a swear word or an insult. I wouldn't believe a word of it without a more worthy citation.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:11:00 am  
Blogger Wombat said...

violet said...

"Probably more balderdash and bullcrap from someone who can't post a sentence here without a swear word or an insult. I wouldn't believe a word of it without a more worthy citation."

Good point Violet.

What I woudl be interested in, is what you woudl have to say if these quotes cold be verified? Would you condemn them or scurry away and justify them as being reasonabel given all the honor killings taking place in Palestinian ecnales?

Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:40:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

There is no need to wonder because they can not be verified.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 5:22:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

"Consider Jenin and Warsaw. In both cases, the world, Western democratic countries stood by and watched the slaughter. Horrified but unwilling to act. But today, in Jenin, unlike during the Nazi slaughter of the Jews in Warsaw, no one can say they didn't know."
(James Petras, April 2002)

Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:03:00 am  
Blogger orang said...

"Israel has also become the main subcontractor of American arms. Just last year, Israel signed a contract to train and equip the Chinese army. It signed another multi-billion dollar contract to train and equip the Indian army. What is it equipping them with? It is equipping them with American weapons."
(Jeff Halper, 20 September 2003)

Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:08:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Why is our resident ape quoting lies from 2002? The whole world, except antisemites, recognize that there was no slaughter in Jenin.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:13:00 am  
Blogger violet said...

That anyone can claim Jenin was a massacre is simply stupid. The whole world does indeed know that it was invented by Arafat.

Much of the media made fools of themselves over this one, as did the UN. They all rushed to report what the Palestinians were claiming, only to discover it was an invention.

In order to understand why the Arabs lie you have to study their system of honour and shame. Manufacturing propaganda is accepted as a method of protecting honour. It's considered a skill to be able to lie with ease.

Shia recognises this and permits Arabs to exercise "taqyia" or "precautionary dissimulation" where Muslims can lie and cheat with religious approval. Do a Google search on this.

The mistake many people make is to interpret the Arab world through Western eyes. This is imposssible. Their value system is fundamentally alien to ours.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:02:00 pm  
Blogger violet said...

Antony

Getting back to your original post on this thread ...what do you make of this?

"... 77% of Israeli Arabs compared to 66% of Israeli Jews believe that Israel is better than most other countries, especially with regard to social welfare. Arab pride in the welfare system is three times as high as Jewish pride, with 53% of Arabs expressing pride in the welfare state compared to 17% of Jews."

It appears the Jews are not as you represent them at all. Israel is a great place to live. A democratic country with an extensive welfare system that cares for Arabs as well as Jews. Oh gosh.

Come on Antony, how do you explain this Arab gratitude for the way Israel treats them? Sort of blows your thesis out of the water doesn't it?

Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:50:00 pm  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Anyone who claims Jenin was a massacre is not stupid. It is willfull lying.

For one purpose.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:14:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

If the dopey "Palestinians" elect Hamas then Israel is totally justified in ignoring the plight of the so-called "Palestinians" and quickly get the wall finished.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:27:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

orand

Are there NO limits to your desperate need to peddle lies to fule your vile anti-semitism? The Jenin "massacre" has LONG been exposed as merely another anti-semitic salvo in the war against Israel that has been waged by the BBC, ABC and Fairfax (Paul McGeough) media for years now.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:29:00 pm  
Blogger boredinHK said...

Edward Said- " Israelis can’t be understood without Palestinians, and visa versa.
So the one-state solution is really the only alternative now. In other words, the Palestinians and Israelis are so mixed, especially in the West Bank and Gaza but also inside Palestine, that the only solution is a multi-confessional, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural state. This idea which the Zionists have tried since 1897 to now, a hundred years, has simply not worked! They are fighting with each other now over what is a Jew, who is a Jew.

They can’t even decide that! How are they going to isolate all the Jews away from you? In the meantime, there are all kinds of social inequities. That is why I think the idea of accepting mixture, which is an explosive statement, is the only way to move forward. Otherwise, we will be stuck in smaller and smaller ghettos. Both of us!"

He seemed accepting of the need for compromise.

Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:45:00 pm  
Blogger neoleftychick said...

Well given that Edward Said was not even a Palestinian and learnt to speak Arabic in the US, I doubt he has much insight into these issues. Also his abominable and unethical lying renders him an inappropriate commentator.

I wonder how he and Hanan Ashrawi would respond to the dimmittude of a Hamas "government." ;)

Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:56:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

neoleftychick said...
"Well given that Edward Said was not even a Palestinian and learnt to speak Arabic in the US"

Meanwhile, neoleftychick is not only a Palestinian, born and bred, but is fluent in both modern and classical Arabic. That's why s/he is a thousand times the authority Edward Said ever was.

You'll also note his/her extensive body of internationally recognised publications, and his/her constant appearance on both national and international television and radio stations as a well-known commentator and scholar.

Yes, an anonymous nobody who revels in hatred and ignorance in equal measure is better placed than anyone here to denounce Said (or, if you prefer neo, Sayeed).

Monday, January 23, 2006 5:07:00 am  
Blogger Ibrahamav said...

Said's life was a lie. He lied regarding his biography, and of course, what he is lionized for, in Islamist circles, was outside his actual area of expertise.

I'm sure you are not the equal of Hitler, but feel free to criticise. I don't anyone but your best friends would object.

Monday, January 23, 2006 12:34:00 pm  
Blogger Edward Mariyani-Squire said...

Ibrahamav said...
"and of course, what he is lionized for, in Islamist circles"

...yeah, the most prestigious halls of academia in the world are "Islamist circles". There's paranoia and then there's Ibranoia.

Monday, January 23, 2006 10:21:00 pm  

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